my onion is that g*rman technology will prove to be vaporware, completely useless
Ukrainian counter-offensive thread.
What are your bets? Predictions? Maps?
My own opinion is that its just days away. Have a hunch. For realz this time.
Roll for the results of the counter-offensive
0. Counter-offensive defeated, no gains for Ukraine
1. Counter-offensive defeated, Ukraine gains 2 to 5 villages they lost in 2023
2. Counter offensive manages to capture 1 or 2 small to middle cities in DNR, that they lost during 2022-2023
3. Counter offensive pushed the lines of control with Russia by several dozens kilometers in multiple regions, medium sized cities captured.
4. Counter offensive pushes the lines of control with Russia by significant margins, 1 or 2 big cities captured, that open up the possibility for further splintering up of Russian frontline, forcing Russia to retreat from wast territories
5. Counter offensive pushes the lines of control with Russia by significant margins, either reaching the border of Russia in DNR or LNR, or reaching the Black sea inside Kherson or Zaporozhie. Big cities captured.
6. Ukraine manages to severe the land bridge with Crimea by capturing Kherson region, or completelly captures one of the Eastern republics DNR or LNR.
7. Ukraine manages to capture 2 regions - DNR and LNR, or Kherson and Zaporozhie. Meaning enormous waves of refugees.
8. Ukraine manages to capture three regions of Russia in Ukraine, or significantly advances and captures the North of Crimea
9. Ukraine captures 4 regions of Russia in Ukraine, or captures Crimea completelly and whatever regions stand in the way.
I think thats far fetched because starting from scenarios 4 to 9 - Kremlin could react by escalating. Can start new mobilisation waves. Could force Belarus into equation. Declare war officially, a curfew and millitary law in Western Russia. Civilian factories repurposed into millitary factories. Change of command in Ministry of defence and general stuff. Closed borders, to not allow males to leave. War taxes.
i think your understanding of situation in Russia is awful and based on wishfull thinking from the same ilk of people who predicted the imminent collapse of China countless times, just replace China with Russia, same caliber of "experts" who don't speak Russian or Chinese language, never been to Russia or China, hear some rumors or fake news online and start drawing far fetched theories based on literal garbage.
I remember Falun Gong spreading fake news that there was a coup in China and then everyone started spreading it, especially Indians, and then even American political analysts started talking about it and monitoring flights in Beijing. Just because some cultists said something without a shred of proof. Same here, some Ukrainian guy can pretend to be Russian kremlin insider and claim that there is evacuation in Kremlin and that Putin is moving through sewers using miniature submarine - and so called experts will start running with it, and you will be posting here with smug face that story about sewer submarine, thinking that you know some deep knowledge.
I dunno about Slovbro, but I am fluent in Russian, and have been working with kacaps and other people from that cultural sphere for most of my lifetime (I have also been to Russia multiple times, if that's any "credential" - excuse me, but lol). My "russophobia" stems fully from my intimate acquaintance with Russian societal mores and political modus operandi, not any "Western propaganda", and it seems to me you are the one that has poor understanding of Russian realities, judging from your posts.
Let me explain it very briefly: the Russian Federation in its current state is, effectively, a cartel. Russia is no Commie China. There is no coherent chain of command in the war effort, there is no clarity in the operation of its economics for anyone involved, from top to bottom. It's just a bunch of competing strongmen with a petty criminal turned billionaire at the shaky top. The very notion of the possibility for adequate coordinated reaction to anything is hilarious.
if you admit that you are biased by confessing your russophobia, then it automatically makes your opinions on the matter worthless. Its not a credentials, its a discrediting factor. If at the core of your motivation is phobia and hatred, you are not chasing the truth, you are chasing conclusions that would confirm your phobia, your emotional trauma. You are exact type of person who would believe the most wacky and bizarre fake news, just because it conforms to your hate-fueled expectations and makes you feel warm and cozy in your tummy
if i was some weirdo who would hate Bulgarians and it was my core driver, then if someone would tell me that Bulgarian Kukeri piss and defecate in their costumes and groom children on every new year's eves, then fueled by my Bulgarian hatred, i would find it pleasurable to believe it
Well I mentioned my "russophobia" purely in order to clarify my stance, and the quotemarks are intentional (that is, for the average Russian I'd be undoubtedly an enemy because of my attitude towards Russia and Russian culture, but I don't consider myself really "russophobic" per se, since I don't hate them indiscriminately and don't have any rationalising delusions about their origin or inherent nature or whatever).
Funny that you mention that thing about the kukeri btw, they tend to be really shitfaced during the whole ordeal (it's just a carnival nowadays basically), so I imagine the pissing themselves thing happens from time to time xD
Is this how counte-offensive looks like?
From the grainy footage on first video we can see few armored vehicles bombed in the field, next video are those vehicles abandoned, because when artillery shrapnel destroys engine, or wheels, they just bail, instead of trying to fix their vehicles under artillery fire
They have an offensive going in the south from the area of Velika Novosilka to Marinka. For now without much results. I think the footage you posted is from there, the thing should look like that in that area.
They also have something going at Bakhmut. It seems they are more successful there.
>they just bail, instead of trying to fix their vehicles under artillery fire
Sounds like the smart thing to do. Stationary vehicles are called target practice. Plus Westerners will give them more, so it's better to save crew, than train a new one.
It's the beginning of the offensive, anything can happen still.
Some dam got blown up and i don't understand why some Ukrainians are happy. They insist that their goal is to return their territories, so if they manage to return territories - they wouldn't have a dam. Building the dam is expensive and hard, you'd think they wanted to return not just land, but everything on it. But instead whats getting destroyed is (from their perspective) is Ukrainian infrastructure.
They more or less imply that they don't have hopes of geting that territory back, and just going scorched earth on it.
Copypasting some context I think is important from twitter: (proofs attached and archived)
>Very important on #Kakhovka. The chronology of the terrorist attack by Russian terrorists. Or how Russians screwed in their excuses.
>At two o'clock in the morning, the Russians blow up the Kakhovka hydroelectric power station, but they don't see how much. It's not very visible, but it can still hit.
>1. The Russians still think that they have neatly blown up a small part of the HPP and are flooding our military on the islands. At 6:06 a.m., the head of Nova Kakhovka, Leontyev, said that the explosion of the GES was nonsense. Like, we don't know why the water rose there. Here is the link to Ria Novosti's http://archive.is/aTyK8
>2. Russian OSINT intelligence community Rybar picks up the thesis and says a small area was blown up at 6:51 a.m. Link http://archive.ph/flapa
>3. At 6:51 in Nova Kakhovka, they see that the dam is a complete ass, and the mom's stratagems start to realize that they are in trouble. The mayor of Nova Kakhovka abruptly changes his rhetoric and says there was no explosion, it was a shelling by the Ukrainian army. Link http://archive.ph/LFFKF
>4. But the propagandists, who do not know what the fuck has happened, continue to work according to the methodology and continue to throw into the information space that the dam was previously shelled, and then it got a little tired and broke a little. Here is a post by Podolyaki's propagandist http://archive.ph/DgQIV. And the propaganda channel War on Fakes http://archive.ph/GRN55
>5. Other telegram channels that cooperate with the military are happily hopping on one leg, cheering, because of the undermining of the Kakhovka dam, the positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces on the islands are flooded, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are trying to evacuate and escape, and then they publish joyful reports of how they are hitting the positions of our guys on the islands. 08:25 Link http://archive.ph/c0iHL
>6. Here, the Russians are slowly realizing that they have created a large-scale man-made environmental disaster, almost as large as Chernobyl. And they are starting to reverse. Russian influence on the information space is changing its tone dramatically. They instantly change their tune and start accusing the Ukrainian side of provocations. Like it's a Bankova operation A reference to the same "war on fakes" that said the dam had somehow collapsed on its own.... http://archive.ph/x8uwT
>But even in their excuses, the racists still screwed up. Either the dam was blown up, or Olha was shelled with MLRS.... http://archive.ph/uF0Xm Although any sapper will give a hundred percent guarantee that it is impossible to make such destruction from the outside, the damage here was done by planting explosives
>And then they are already beginning to adhere to this thesis, because what they have done is a huge international tragedy, especially in the environmental sense.
>I have translated this text from https://t.me/jurnko Telegram channel
In other news, the water in that irrigation canal is now flowing back from Crimea into Dněpr.
Ukrainians basically confessed that they had plans on blowing up this dum just few months ago
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/29/ukraine-offensive-kharkiv-kherson-donetsk/
So attempts at forging the narrative that it was somehow Russians who did this, look as fake as blaming Russia for Nord Stream 2 bombing, while drinking and celebrating the loss for Russia.
>they had plans
yes, a functioning military should always consider all the options
>just few months ago
so, in a strategically completely different situation
regarding the nord stream 2, having it blow up absolves russia from having to pay penalties for not providing gaz according to contract due to force majeure clause. who benefits?
yawn...
you not convincing anyone. Its like a game, you try to repeat the lie, knowing that it sounds improbably, in hopes that it sticks to the wall, but everyone around you sees your lies as personal insult to their intelligence
Keep doing that, but reality is not getting crafted by repeating such dumb lies.
Universal answer that you can say at any situation where your low IQ fails to generate proper response. Atleast you didn't sperg out something about "worry"
In fact this dumb game of crafting the narratives is very benefitial, because in the end you lower the IQ of your own side, by forcing them to believe in such dumb shit. without a shred of self-criticism or self-consciousness, because common sense and critical thinking is discouraged because it portrayed as serving "the other side".
Americans and westerners are already dumb, but increasingly they are forced to believe the more and more retarded sets of lies and those lies become the building blocks of conclusions that lead to mistakes and failures in the future.
So thats why i say - keep going, sure, spread this dumb narratives, lies, discourage critical thinking and common sense, see where it leads you, in what kind of company you'll find yourself soon.
Reactivated? Elaborate on that, i wanna hear your insane story
all i know about you is that you are some dumb jew(or you try to pretend to be a jew, because that way people might believe you have higher IQ than you have), who has a twitter account and constantly tries to be noticed or re-tweeted by "hot take gurus" and you try to copy them in as many ways as possible, but your IQ is pretty low and your takes are cold and flat most of the time, but since you have some few bot followers who probably forgot who you are, or dont know that your positions are positions of other people, they probably rarely engage you, boosting your pathetic ego, making you believe that you have a following.
what civil war, clown
i remember just a year ago, everyone proclaimed that Russia was doomed economically, yet the strongest sanctions failed to do the kind of damage you were all salivating about. Russia haven't gone bankrupt
of course Europe didn't freeze to death too, but it seems that Europe can exist without Russia and Russia can exist without western brands and SWIFT system just fine, it wasn't the death blow everyone was hoping for
And now what would trigger the civil war? Some dam explosion in Ukraine? Some insignificant change on the front in Ukraine? No one gives a fuck
>Russia haven't gone bankrupt
it did tho
Tho tbh the point of "sanctions" was in fact not what the dumbass journalists claimed it is but instead to incentivise wectern companies to leave, to minimize issues when hard decoupling happens
>And now what would trigger the civil war?
Warlords and PMCs having more cred, influence, etc. than the military and they are already allowed to act with impunity.
With no inheritance system in place, it's a free-for-all when Pitun croaks.
In fact after 2022, Putin managed to clean the field from all the potential opposition for year and years ahead. Navalny in jail. All other liberals, outed themselves by flying to Israel and denouncing Russia and by supporting Ukraine. There were actual politicians, opposition politicians who had some political capital in Russia and could have had some support in future elections, but by openly supporting Ukraine, they commited political suicide inside Russian polical arena. Its like that one action that dooms your career in the field, like loosing the legs for runner, or loosing the sight for sniper.
So now there are no contenders for Putin in Russia.
>when hard decoupling happens
>it wasn't the real co..i mean it wasn't the real DECOUPLING!
>real decoupling in two weeks!
lol, sure thing.
>more cred, influence, etc. than the military and they are already allowed to act with impunity.
You don't understand the scales. Russia is ...le big. Those pmcs have some freedoms in regions of Ukraine, but everywhere else they are under control of FSB and they can't simply start moving their shit without orders and permissions. Remember when Prigozhin cried to Shoigu about Ammo? So if army wanted, they could just strangle Prigozhin or other PMC by not giving them any ammo, yet they were giving him a lot.
>when Pitun croaks
You have no idea what would happen. By succession, Mishustin would become acting president and as one of his first actions, he would assert his dominance by purging a few oligarchs and would be contenders, and in a few weeks the Leviathan of Russian government would go along as if nothing happened. But this time, the ruthless jew would be in charge, making you wish Putin would still be alive.
> no inheritance system in place
Like i am sure you think you have so high IQ, you think you don't even need to read Wiki, but then you make dumb mistakes like that outing you like a complete retard who just wants to appear smart, but doesn't even know the basics, thinking he already knows everything and don't need to do even a two second google search or read wiki
> Europe can exist without Russia and Russia can exist without western brands
> Europe still buys Russian oil and gas via third countries (refined or just rebranded)
> Russia still imports European goods via third countries (parallel import bruh)
Globalisation is fun innit? At least these third countiries can make some money out of it.
Overall these sanctions were a failure, the blow they dealt to Russian economy isn't that significant and the level of global market control they offer is even lower. Hope someone makes notes as it will be very important when dealing with Chinese influence in the coming years.
But Russia is doomed regardless of the sanctions due to its corrupt military and its strategy based on data outdated by decades. And when the war is lost and all these frustrated warlords with their experienced private armies return to business in Russia civil war would become a possibility.
Russians are currently scavenging microchips from literally everything they can get. There's been cases like stolen speed cameras from Sweden which ended up in Russian drones and such. It's macabre.
Currently the oil and gas is traded like this:
>Russia has to pay upkeep, can't just shut down the wells
>sell at or even below extraction costs to India
>India resells to Europe for profit
It's not a zero-sum game, people forget
Not a chance. The ammount of deals and connections China has with other entities is far too great for any regulation body. Far exceeds Russia.
Like you know when niggers just do crime in USA, knowing that police doesn't have resources to catch them all? Same applies here. And with US dollar loosing significance, if third actors would hold their money in Chinese banks, they'd be just laughing at American sanctions.
And Russia and China are unique countries because we are 2 countries that have borders with the most states in the world. Each of the borders with the neighbouring country is the potential gateway for smuggling. And the links can be real big, so country X ships goods to country Y and they ship it to Russia or China. Or you can add 2 or 3 countries in the chain between X and Y and then no regulation can track this shit
>when the war is lost
How do you define "the war is lost"? Russia losing all of its ground in Ukraine? Russia not gaining more ground in Ukraine?
> It's not a zero-sum game
Yes, Russia lost some money but it ain't that much, the rest of the profits is still enough to fuel the war for the time being.
> they'd be just laughing at American sanctions
That's what I'm talking about, another handle is required. Trade restrictions lost their usefulness with modern logistics. On the other hand, Chinese military is probably even more corrupt than Russian so some options are out
> How do you define "the war is lost"?
When Russian war effort is exhausted so Russia has to pull the military out of the region.
There's a reason why nobody trades in RMB despite China's position in global trade, ponder that first.
For comparison, € does pull its fair share of reserve and global trade volume.
So, you rely on third actors doing something they already can, but don't want to, and there is nothing like "da global $ conspiracy" preventing it from happening, given that EU can do it no problem.
aaa as a chinese i must say in china 。For the war, it is roughly divided into two factions that support Ukraine and Russia and I am a neutral pacifist
to be honest i think if the wester stop support ukraine ruassian will win
but it seems that the war will countiue for long time utill someone give uo
>There's a reason why nobody trades in RMB despite China's position in global trade, ponder that first.
>For comparison, € does pull its fair share of reserve and global trade volume.
>
>So, you rely on third actors doing something they already can, but don't want to, and there
is nothing like "da global $ conspiracy" preventing it from happening, given that EU can do it no problem.
Oh, I think using dollars and euros is more likely to be the first time Europe and the United States established a world market
If one day the world starts using China, then the United States must have disintegrated
>When Russian war effort is exhausted so Russia has to pull the military out of the region.
So you mean...never? Because this war is at the defensive stage right now. And even then, Russia didn't declare the state of war, defence budget is still at 3% of GDP, so everything in Russia chugs along as if nothing happened.
We can sit those soldiers in trenches for 10 years or even 21 years like US in Afghanistan. And eventually someone will crack. Maybe Ukraine will crack, its presidential elections are soon, maybe Europe will crack, maybe US will crack. But Russia has a long history of those frozen conflicts. You have this fixation that this soon has to be over somehow, that there is going to be some sudden change in one side or the other, that the winner is going to be declared soon - no. Status quo can be maintained by Kremlin where we occupy Crimea and other Oblasts of Ukraine and it lasts, and lasts, and lasts for year, years, years, years, untill people stop listening to Zelensky cries and eventually even Zelensky will go, and multiple administrations in other countries will change, but Russia will still be sitting on that border, not allowing Ukraine into NATO and slowly destroying its economy via attrition.
> sit those soldiers in trenches for 10 years or even 21 years like US in Afghanistan
The total number of troops deployed there were mere few thousands for most of the time, and the same with other frozen conflicts you mentioned. This one currently draws a lot of money and resources from both sides, and to freeze it Russia would have to withdraw most of its forces as otherwise 3% would become 63%.
> Russia will still be sitting on that border, not allowing Ukraine into NATO and slowly destroying its economy via attrition
That's what I meant by strategies outdated by decades btw.
>Offensive is hard
No question about it.
The front where the (supposed) main attack is (Velika Novosilka-Vulehdar) the least fortified, only one line were established - or so I heard -, by the Russians, so if anywhere there Ukraine perhaps can do something. On the other hand it's open terrain. We really are early on.
Ukraine is now in Westerner pockets. Rebuilding the dam will be a good project for US/EU.
Meh. It seems most of the proofs: they talking gibberish. I bet at 6:51 the mayor of the town doesn't even had his morning vodka, not to mention go to the scene and take a look what's going on.
Anyway.
Russia could gain:
- Flooding AFU troops on the islands, make the terrain downstream less passable. AFU is/will be launching supporting attacks, to engage forces, not allowing them to reinforce the direction of the main strike. One site is this Kherson front.
Ukrain could gain:
- most of the water flooded Russian hold territory
- stopping water supply to Crimea
- lowering reservoir level, creating more opportunities for landing strikes across it, somewhere near Energodar, behind the reservoir there is barely any fortification and very few Russian units (Russians did some strikes earlier, perhaps preemtively)
On the third hand it might had been accidental in the sense that wasn't conscious effort to blow up the dam. It got damaged last year, no maintenance, and water level was the highest since a long time.
NS2 was US-Norway co-production:
https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream
As for the succession: Death of Stalin. And I both mean the actual event and the comedy.
I don't think any of the self-appointed successors want a dragged out conflict, they want to be rich and powerful fast. They are profiting in the system of what they have now, and they'll be fine one of them grabbing the power. They'll form pliable cliques temporary alliances see who seems to be the weakest, they'll sacrifice one and compromise with the rest.
If the situation is bad on the front the successor will have the chance to dump responsibility onto the deceased Putin to halt the war and save face perhaps.
But yes, I agree, we...
>have no idea what would happen.
It really is just brain exercise.
>Remember when Prigozhin cried to Shoigu about Ammo
Prigo is basically just shitposting all the time. Most what he says shouldn't be taken seriously.
Well, first the top feudal lords have to decide whom the people want to be the president. They have three months.
But Tengri knows when the Great Khan will throw up his soles to the air. So the whole thing might be moot.
>Oh, I think using dollars and euros is more likely to be the first time Europe and the United States established a world market
Nah, the "world market" you're referring to was established by the US, what you see now as Europe was formerly just the western half as a geopolitical vassal of America. Europe at this point did not have that much weight on its own, nor own currency. What happened then is, EU expanded eastwards gobbling up as much as possible from Soviet Union shitting the bed, established its own currency, and challenged US trade hegemony.
And should I mention, all those pics of how China took over the trade hegemon status from US? Well, reality is that EU is actually who predominates in most of those parts of the world which China "took over". See attached two maps – the first one shared a lot by west-haters with iq89, and the second one showing the actual situation.
What I'm saying is, EU successfully took over a huge chunk of trade power from US, implemented its own economy... and America did not, in fact, ever manage to do anything against it. You cannot wave it away by claiming "but it is known that Europe is just America's lackey that cannot do anything on its own". Let me remind you that Europe successfully blocked the Iraq invasion from passing UN security council (not that it mattered much, with how US pulled what Putin hoped for and failed spectacularly to do), and even started a trade war with America over it.
>On the third hand it might had been accidental in the sense that wasn't conscious effort to blow up the dam. It got damaged last year, no maintenance, and water level was the highest since a long time.
Yes I'm kinda leaning towards this option as well.
It looks like it took everyone by surprise, and the fingerpointing is just bluff from both sides.
Meanwhile, nobody has any footage of an explosion of anything happening.
>seymourhersh.substack.com
lol, lmao
that senile boomer has no idea what he's talking about
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1624019376692240387.html
>first the top feudal lords have to decide whom the people want to be the president.
No, there is a clear system of chain of command in place. If old man crocks, then everyone will ask "Who is the big man, who is the boss?" and by law, the boss will be the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister is not some rookie, not some fish out of water idiot. its a very powerfull man, who already has close advisors, friends and colegues who are his clique. The moment he has the FULL power, it means he has the power over propaganda apparatus to ensure he wins elections in 3 months, it means his clique of people will be put in the positions of power in the presidential administration, the guards of the presidents will be his guards. FSB, and dozens of other secret services at his beck and call.
The only possible obstacle in the way for the Prime Minister is the leader of Uniter Russia party and previous president - Medvedev. But i guess they will decide something, maybe share the power somehow. Medvedev stepped down at the request of Putin in 2012, and so he can be reasoned with, he is not the one to stab you in the back, because he wants the power and doesn't want to relinquish it, so maybe he will become Prime minister and Mishustin - president, or vice versa.
> they want to be rich and powerful fast.
They are already rich and powerfull, lol. And all of them have no illusions that they can be somehow accepted in the West again, neither they have the trust in the Western institutions. Before this conflict, they believed that Swiss banks are actually neutral, that UK laws are fair, but that belief is erroded. Oligarch's yachts are getting confiscated abroad, making it unlikely those oligarchs will be embracing West again, because they know that these things can be taken away from them without any legality.
>I don't think any of the self-appointed successors want a dragged out conflict
When Putin took power from Eltsin, he inherited Chechnya conflict and he dealt with it, solved it so succesfully, that Chechens now are the most loyal soldiiers of the regime. He also inherited simmering conflict in Georgia, Transnistria, Nagorny Karabakh. But he never tried to solve them, just conserving them in that frozen state as they were. Conflicts like that not all loses - conflicts like that become status quo in and of itself. There is a conflict there - and that is reality, that is the fact and that reality is driving certain business and industries together, generating not just loses but profits for many right people. Some people are getting real rich on that conflict in both Ukraine and Russia.
heh, baka
You again spew some pseudo-phylosophical bullshit that meant to impress other low IQ ledditors and twitter cretins, but it is completelly disconnected from reality with which you are not familiar. In Russian govurmnet a lot of things are done with almost religious respect to law, because not adhering to said law could mean possible attacks in the future from your own peer competitors. So everything is done in accordance with law, with a lot of useless documents to the point of a joke. You never observed sesions of Russian Duma or Senate, you have no expirience of observing actual Russian government. Instead reading brainlets like yourself who oversimplify things to make it believable to other low IQ cattle who wants to appear smarter, by bragging about their knowledge of these things, without actually doing any research.
if you ever used ChatGPT, i bet your favorite prompt is "Take this complex topic, and explain it in 3 sentences, oversimplifying it, deducing to primitive philosophical concepts and present findings in an arrogant manner". Shit you post is so banal and flat, you look like AI generated bot, even though that bot can do better than you.
Lol, you not tearing down anything other than my eyes with laughter. Last year you were fully erect on the China collapse wagon, posting retard predictions, jerking of on evergrande before that and saying that Zero Covid is the death of China. And now China is back in business again with 5.4 GDP growth, no one even remebers zero covid there or evergrande.
the only time i was wrong is when i didn't believe that Izyum would fall so quickly but unlike you i can admit my mistakes, i don't care about reputation on the anonomous site, but you cling to that ego, because the admited mistakes could be linked to that twitter that is linked to you and your cred.
air quality in China is improving because everyone is hopping on electric cars
you are uneducated on economics, don't embarass yourself
Youth unemployment is not the end of the world, in some countries its even worse, but no one is screaming that they are collapsing
Youth unemployment in Turkey stood at 20.1 per cent in March and 21.6 per cent in Sweden.In Italy in March, 22.3 per cent were unemployed, while in Greece, the figure stood at 24.2 per cent. In Spain, the figure has remained above 29 per cent since November, having fallen from a recent high of 31.6 per cent in both August and September.
You never do any research, just clinging up to some number without understanding its significance, gish-galloping like some retarded breadtuber, spewing as many weak ass pseudo-arguments as you can in hopes that people who read them, would be to lazy to go through each of your weak lame ass points.
Back to topic
Since I don't think I shitposted this on bernd.group back then (it didn't look like happening any time soon, even though it was an obvious opening since the beginning) here's just the screenshots of me shitposting about the Tokmak-Melitopol axis which is being opened right now, a long time ago already.
p.s. the reservoir water level dropping also opens a bypass around any trenches west of vasilevka, though I'm not sure if it will actually be useful due to silt.
>air quality in China is improving because everyone is hopping on electric cars
not when you burn coal to make that electricity lol
as for the rest, literally the original why_worry.tweet
<if china is in decline, why worry? maybe wect is in decline too and china manage better
I mean
>turkey
>greece
>people not screaming their economy is collapsing
lol, lmao
are you even following? The consensus is, Greek economy is collapsed for the last 15 years
Given that he appears only sporadically during... quite interesting time frames, he's probably a paid one
I reckon he's paid by word count too
which answers your question, why I bother
I give him a reason to respond
he can make a living
in turn, his words are wasted on us, not convincing anyone, instead of actually causing harm among some demented boomers
win-win
The Ukrainian offensive is still going at Bakhmut and in on the Zaporozhya front in Tokmak direction. All the other push were halted.
Real gains for now is at Bakhmut, but then the front is the least solidified there due the Russians stopped their attack only recently.
The destroyed Leo 2(s) were geolocated at Mala Tokmachka which means they weren't participating in the attack. Were struck by artillery behind the front.
The offensive is ongoing for a good 5 days now. So maybe they took out 74 vehicles, but definitely not in one day.
While we're at what we've seen, here's video of one Leopard being recovered (looks like it stepped on a mine), and a video of a rout (supposedly of russian artillery) that NAFO twitter has been gloating over today (so this makes me thing it's the only one they have), geoloc'd to Velika Novosělka, on Jun 5.
You really read all my posts with the wrong intonation in your head. You are either dumb as a brick or you are battxepted in your Russin fanboyism that I was right when I said Ukies are fine at Bakhmut and they'll just retreat to the next line prepared, and you are dumb as a brick.
But now that you are pulled out the scorn, here's a reply you can chew on: for Wagner it took weeks to gain that much ground, for the Ukies that took a day. Ofc there is a reason for that, but with you nothing can be discussed seriously.
At Velike Novosilka both to the east and the west AFU created a salient which they failed to exploit, then probably lost both in the end. Problem is what they got held up by just forward positions the fortified line is perhaps 10 kms more from there.
Anyway offensive is hard when facing planned and prepared defensive lines and enemy in similar strength. Both Kherson and Khakriv offensives were successful because they vastly outnumbered the Russians who did not dig in. Those who expected something like that are beyond optimists. Still, this thing has only just begun, noone really knows what can be expected further on.
One question noone tries to figure out when and where Wagner will be deployed again.
Hmm. Wagner might remain nearby Bakhmut. Prigo gave a speech, mentioning many things like Shoigu's sons and daughters vaselining their assholes, and that the Wagner might go to Belgorod - among others.
Apparently both sides tries to recover the Leo2s.
For Ukraine repairing western mbts is a problem. They have to haul them out from Ukraine, into Polan, because they need huge factories to get the job done, and they would be prime targets for Russian rockets. Polan built a new factory for that.
There are a lot of territories that are modern nomansland. It can be fields, villages. Meaning, that its a territory that you CAN capture, but you can't defend it, because once you capture it, you are inside enemy's line of fire, so if you pour units to defend that nomansland, they are just going to be destroyed by artillery barrage and drone harassment. A lot of territories in the South, where Ukraine tried to attack is just that - flat fields nomansland. Even the name of the city Huliaipole literally translates like WanderField.
Russia probably has several lines of defence and reinforcments system. So if Ukraine manages to get some results and push some unit of RuArmy, from frontline, forcing them to retreat, there is ALARM going off in command HQ and planes and helicopters take off, going to that place, and RESERVE armored brigades advance to patch that breach. Ukraine doesn't have time to reach defensible positions, before getting pelted and even if they get far, they don't have time to dig up, before RuArmy reinforcments start working on them.
Seems like Ukrainian bet was literally just hoping for RuArmy's low morale and incompetence in creating that system of alarm and reinforcments. Literally, the bet was that once Russian soldier sees leopards, he will piss his pants and start running, thinking there is nothing he can do to it. And Ukraine would just be advancing into empty trenches and cities. And Russian South Operational army command was supposed to ignore the losses of territory and just report that everything is fine, just like they did with Izyum, occasionally throwing at the advancing Ukrainian forces the unpreppered re-inforcments that were drawn from different places in Russia, not accustomed to local battlefield and not supported by airforce. Seems like that bet didn't pay out so far. The brigades that defend the South front have been there for a long time, they know their trenches, know the communications and how to call on air force, reinforcments are competent too.
Does Ukraine have any ace up their sleeve to reveal in the upcoming months?
Apparently Ukraine in capturing some villages.
So far counter-offensive could be said to achieve rank 1 of my list here >>272898
![TikTok video #7243387903827807494 [7243387903827807494].mp4](/up/9b0642a23168db573a1ccf5a0a9d5e13_thumb.jpg)
Finland gave Ukraine 3 Leopard 2R HMBV (Heavy Mine Breaching Vehicle) in total. In this picture you can see all of them destroyed, close to each other. Also in this picture Bergepanzer 3 Buffel given to Ukraine by Canada.
Sooo...there is a mine field. How do you demine it under fire? There are different approaches, one is to drive next to the mine with mine clearing vehicle and make a breach. This seems to be loosing proposition. At the very least those mine clearning vehicles should be unmanned, because if each of them has people inside, then its a useless loss of life. There is a remote way of destroying mines using explosives fired from the distance, but the charge to make a breach is really heavy most of the times and can't fly far. And to clear the mines you need to explode them on the big depth, but then you just turning the ground up, it just creates big elongated crater with comlicated bottom that a few vehicles can drive through.
The mines can be laid down remotely too, like this. This isn't just reactive artillery, this is new system of creating minefields using MLRS. Each of them falls down, digs and waits for vehicle of enemy. That way you can create mine fields in the enemy backyardm blocking their retreat or resupply routes without even stepping foot on them or even mine area right in front of advancing enemy.
There are footages Russians destroying Leo2s that look abandoned, so they actively try to hunt these down. They can be recovered but it's not 100% they will be in recoverable condition in the next wave.
Both sides are betting on the long run.
Yeah, AFU changed the weight to the east of Velike Novosilka. I assume they found the resistance softer there.
The first line of fortification is about 7-8 kms to the south from where they are now (Makarovka).
There was some report that Russians retreated on quite a few points, but some disorderly through their own minefields.
Worthy to note that the column with the first Leo 2 hits was going through a minefield, an Ukrainian one.
Pynya had a pressing today, or something. Among other things, he said that Puccia lost 54 TONKS in this counteroffensive.
Meanwhile, Oryxspioenkop, the known inflator of figures and peddler of photos of same wreckage several times (source: ziggers) has only counted 31.
Pynya's claim also falls in line with the losses Ukr MoD is claiming – 58 tanks since last Wednesday...
tl;dr Pynya accidentally confirmed that those numbers you see here are correct
Here 's the open article:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230614053042/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/13/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-ukraine-cia.html
It was the US with Norway.
Yes, I know the article doesn't say that, but it says it was the Ukrainians. Which just means it wasn't Russia. Who has better resources and access to do so? US or Ukraine? Now enough time passed Ukraine could like a fucking hero to do it, so finally they tell us it wasn't Russia.
>160 vs. 54
This is literelly 3:1 attacker vs. defender meme. Putin is trolling Ukieboos who always cite this FACT when racking up Russian losses. Somehow the suggestion that "the side on the offensive should have a 3:1 numerical superiority for a comfortably successful campaign" got extrapolated by the audience of this war that "for every 1 defender 3 dies".
That's silly. Liek at Velike Novosilka they have tank, marine, and territorial defense brigades, and I think no mechanized ones. And right now there is the main effort it seems.
Besides I don't think they have such plan that is set in stone. Lots of units aren't committed yet, and I think they are having this special probing operation where they are trying for the way of least resistance and if they find it, there will they commit the most weight which they can re-allocate.
But for that they still have to reach the fortified lines and see how they fare. In Tokmak direction even if they brake one line, there are more behind. The least fortified part is at VNovosilka. They probably will just go on take patches of land.
Problem is AFU is handicapped in the air, and their air defense is inadequate. They are aware of these shortcomings. This offensive has to go, because they promised it so much, and Westerner public opinion has to see it is worth to supporting them. They'll gonna get further equipment both from Europe and USA, more tanks (Leopard 2s and Abrams), and even fighter jets. These won't arrive tomorrow but if they can keep up, maybe half a year and they have more units trained, and reinforcements for the current ones (which will have considerable combat experience like the 47th Mechanized Brigade which is now essentially green).
Ukraine has no previous experience in real fight against fortified enemy, nor Kherson, neither Kharkov was an offensive against such. So they blunder through this one. They have theoretical knowledge, they saw what Russians did, and themselves participated as defenders so they know what the defenders do. But putting that into practice is a different thing.
I say it is a feint. Already said so: >>274540
Btw, reuters reports such now too:
>The military created 12 armoured brigades for the operation, nine of them trained and equipped by the West, analysts say. A brigade typically comprises at least 3,500-4,000 troops. Ukraine has said it formed eight assault brigades of 40,000 soldiers drafted by the Interior Ministry.
>Konrad Muzyka, a Poland-based military analyst who tracks the war closely, said only three of the 12 brigades had been seen in combat in the southeast so far.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-counteroffensive-takes-shape-main-test-still-come-2023-06-14/
Armchair general moment here: in current situation, I'd try to break through at Vugledar / Volnovaxa and push for Mariupoĺ.
That is, unless they do still have "partisans" waiting up above Melitopoĺ (around Vesele, Novobogdanovka) where they were being reported last year.
They had losses around Bakhmut, so they might redirect vehicles and people for re-arming and re-populating those old Brigades, or have those brigades try some local offensive attempts on isolated directions, but not concentrated in one place as one armoured fist.
Because if you really concentrate many vehicles and people in one place, for the supposed offensive, they are easily detected, those 4000 people per brigade need to be housed somewhere, and 10 brigades its like 40000 people, easily detectable, lots of chatter on radiowaves.
Its not a video game, where the commander gives the command and the unit follows it precisely. The task of coodrinating those brigades is also hard, because each of them has the mind of their own, eager to make new dumb mistakes. i saw a lot of disconnected vehicles just driving around, as if alone by Ukrainian army, often they don't really care that they are part of some brigade, they just get fired upon, get a few hits, few wounded and like they got a checkbook, here is their logic:
- our vehicle got hit - CHECK
- we have wounded soldier - CHECK
We have two checks, now we can retreat as far back as we can and just sit our ass in the back, claiming our radio was malfunctioning and we didn't hear commands, lets retreat 100km and while army will figure out how to transport us back to battlefield, we can rest and sleep in the rear end of the action.
Thats how many of them think and you'd have a hard time convincing them to march through artillery barrages and minefiields to Mariupol.
Hitting on and taking it out is two different things. Also destroyed, disabled, damaged, abandoned are also different things.
The same can be said about the Ukrainian MoD's daily reports of the Russian losses, where they write "liquidated" at the personnel line make it appear as they actually killed that many people. They lump together KIA, WIA, MIA, and POWs, when those are all different things - with the exception that they are called "losses" or "casualties", which doesn't mean dead. Plus a person can get wounded on more then one occasion, and that person can missing - then reappear, sometimes returned, sometimes as POW, or wounded, and the same person after all this can still die, so only one man can make up several in the "casualty" report.
Just from the top of my head
ATACMS are coming soon.
F-16 will come later.
Germany, Norway, Czechia, Italy ordered Leopard 2A8, older Leopards will be sent to Ukraine.
Germany will deliver first batches of new Gepard ammunition in July.
A few dozen Abrams tanks will arrive this year.
About 100 Leopard 1 will arrive this year.
Israel is selling Merkavas, very likely older tanks will go to Ukraine in exchange.
Ukraine isn't running out of support any time soon.
Meanwhile we get more news about Russian cruelty. Apparantly it is not that uncommon that they castrate Ukrainian POWs. This might be demoralizing for a few individuals on the front line, but it will strengthen the resolve of everyone else and make the world despise Russia more. Putin completely rejecting any kind of attempts at peace talks will also further escalate Western support for Ukraine, while Russia is losing more and more modern combat systems that they can't readily replace. Fighting with older systems means more casualties. Fighting with less experienced troops means more casualties.
Putin is exterminating the Russian male population and the Chinese are lying in wait. They will take Vladivostok, they will take Russian wives and they will take over Russian economic assets.
I still remember Roosters gloating about the flight and expulsion of 10-15 million ethnic Germans after WWII and how Germany lost like half it's territory. Well, soon they will experience something very similar themselves. And all they have to blame is Putler and themselves.
Smert occupantam. Slava Ukraini.
Its like that always - first you claim that some wunderwaffe will be delivered and change everything, and then when it doesn't happen, you try to rewrite history claiming "Aktually, i never claimed that!"
>the Chinese are lying in wait. They will take Vladivostok, they will take Russian wives and they will take over Russian economic assets.
This has to be fat bait, aimed deliberatelly at me.
Wunderwaffe is a Russian cope. I haven't claimed anywhere in the text that a single weapon system will completely change the course of the war. It's just very simple: Ukraine gets a continous supply of the weapons they already use and with ATACMS and F-16 they will get a few abilities they don't yet have.
If it's a war of attrition, it's not going in Russia's favour. Simple as.
And if we want to talk about rewriting history. Does any of the following ring a bell?
>War will be over in 3-4 days
>Zelensky has fled to Bucharest, Russian tanks are already in Kiev
>Russia captured a NATO general
>Moskva keeps bouyancy
>Germans will freeze to death in winter, Western economy will collapse
>all HIMARS have been destroyed on arrival, Caesars have been sold by corrupt Ukrainians
>Kherson will forever be a Russian city
>Ukrainian counteroffensive has failed completely, hundreds of tanks destroyed
This time you're not fighting against an aggressor like Napoleon or Hitler. Strategic depth is going to help you very little when you try to hold Ukrainian territory.
Your stockpiles are big, your production of military equipment not so much. Wect has a much greater industrial capacity and is committed to supply Ukraine with everything it needs.
And ATACMS will upgrade HIMARS from 40km range to 300km range, that will make Poccner a bit smaller.
All you're doing by continuing this war is prolonging everyone's suffering and digging your own grave. Nobody wanted this war but you. You could have had peace and prosperity. But you chose Putler, war and misery.
nah, and besides, mobilisation stopped
And we really don't need another mobilisation wave with how shitty this Ukrainian counter-offensive going. I mean, if they would have actually breached 80 kms and reached Black Sea, cutting the land bridge to Crimea, that would be humiliating and necessitate another mobilisation wave.
>Ukraine isn't running out of support any time soon.
That is fair assumption. But everyone talks about the F-16 like pilot training would be taking a driving course for your Volkswagen. Even for already trained pilots it's different and need many, many flight hours until one gets to be proficient. I know the pilots are already getting trained, they were for months before it was announced they'll get the F-16. Also Ukraine will probably get Grippens as well, and getting F-18s.
The rest is getting out of hand a little bit.
>your production of military equipment not so much.
You really underestimate Russian production. Also they get help from China (there are many non-lethal stuff they can supply), and Iran for sure.
>Wect has a much greater industrial capacity
Wekt passes on it's own used equipment (for now). But Wekt lacks in artillery and air defense - which is the most needed.
>and is committed to supply Ukraine with everything it needs.
For now. But who knows what happens in 6 months or a year?
Last video mentions:
>produce some result before the upcoming NATO summit
This is the Vilnius summit on July 11-12, less then a month in. This is important because members will express if they want to keep support this war or not, the war will be one of the important topics, besides China-Taiwan, and armament (now everyone is beefing up their armies). But frankly I don't think the results of this offensive will put much weight in any way. It would be just a nice touch to present something against the naysayers. As long as the US govt. wants to support the war, NATO members will support it.
Its going to be frozen conflict, no one here is talking about Russian victory. You may interpret the freezing of conflict line as the Russian victory, but i dont think so.
We just going to sit where we are now, trying to deflect the attacks from Ukraine. You may sit with your math and proclaim that Russia is paying higher cost and because of this cost is loosing. Kremlin doesn't care about YOUR math. It is obvious people in Kremlin have their own funny math, and based on that - we are going to sit on the frontline and deflect the attacks from Ukraine, occasionally advancing ourselves if the situation allows.
No one calls it a victory, a win. Its a process. Its the Special Millitary Operation.
You can call it "cucked" while also crying and moaning, that its a millitary occupation, because we are in fact sitting on the territory that was in the past Ukraine. We are building houses there, there are Russian governors, Russian rouble is in circulation on this territory, people get Russian pasports, we drive vehicles from there to Crimea.
Call it - "the cucked occupation" because we "don't occupy Enough" in your opinion.
It is, but these pages of history are very obscure. No video games, no movies about those battles. Everyone in Russia remembers only kicking the nazis in Europe, but what happened on the pacific theater is not known for many here.
The true chad knows when to strike. If Stalin was a dumb pussy, respecting this treaty, then Japan would surrender to USA but still would have Kuril islands, part of Sakhalin island, Korea would be either completelly pro-US and pro-Japan alligned, Kwantung army would have more time to cover up its attrocities, USSR wouldn't be able to support Mao in Chinese civil war. And then USA would be able to place their millitary bases on Kuril islands and on Sakhalin, USSR and Japan would have a land border there in the middle of Sakhalin, USSR probably wouldn't be a side in the Potsdam Declaration. And all of this - just to respect a treaty with Japan who was on the way out to become American puppet-state anyway after signing unilateral surrender? Thats a very bad future that was avoided, because for once Stalin showed that he is a skillfull strategist.
> is a skillfull strategist
Again, I'm not saying it was a wrong move. But it's not a chad move, chad is somebody who sees himself strong enough to never worry about minimising losses.
Was it wrong or not is a bigger question. For example, CCP would probably not won the war in China if Soviets weren't in Manchuria, and their win in long term turned out to be quite troublesome for Russia (and for the whole world, too). Who could have known.
I wonder how honest Japanese history textbooks are nowadays...
>chad is somebody who sees himself strong enough to never worry about minimising losses.
Nah, here is where i disagree. If this was true, then in your opinion it would be a chad move to just sit and allow Americans to completelly grab East-Asian sphere for themselves, including the previously Russian territories, encircling USSR. Maybe you say it would also be a chad move to just liberate USSR from nazis and stop at pre-war USSR borders without asserting communist control over Eastern Europe, without going to Berlin and without purging the nazi army all the way to Hitler's bunker?
Thats what i call being a cuck. And Stalin definatelly wasn't a cuck.
He did a lot of attrocities at home, but sometimes i from the perspective of USSR-Russian person, i can't say that his action on international stage were wrong. If we were to dig into details, of course some of the decisions could be optimised, but general trend in the late WW2 and after, definatelly a banger. He was respected for his foreign moves all around the world. Only later when less competent soviet leaders started coming to power, they unraveled many of his foreign achievments.
Japanese textbooks today are not honest. Rather, they criticize the old Japan (the era of the Japanese Empire). Hah .... I wonder what our ancestors who had brave "true Yamato Spirit" in the past would think when they see Japan today.
And do the Japanese of today have the "true Yamato Spirit"? No, the Japanese of today do not have the "true Yamato Spirit.
Let me say this for the sake of those who believe wrong information here.
The Korean peninsula is not a Japanese colony!When the Korean peninsula was annexed, it was no longer treated as "Korean peninsula" but as "part of Japan"!
And not to mention the Nanking Incident (Nanking Massacre).
The Nanking Incident (Nanking Massacre) is a fabrication by the Chinese idiots!If there was a Nanking Incident, why is it that the population of Nanking after the Incident is larger than before the Incident? Can you explain it? Why do you believe it?
Let's say there was a dastardly act by the Kwantung Army. But I can assure you that it was not commanded by the military. It was not commanded by the military, but by individual decisions! and even if one person in the Kwantung Army did commit such an act, it was not a military command.
And let's say a member of the Kwantung Army committed a despicable atrocity. But the Japanese military would take very severe action against the soldier who committed the despicable atrocity.
Why are you being deceived by GHQ, internet disinformation, and anti-Japanese Chinese? I thought people overseas were smarter than this.
>it was no longer treated
Who cares how they called it. Ryukyu islands, which are part of Japan today, are still not treated the same, overall life quality and development opportinuties are much lower. And before now, Japanese opressed local culture and languages for centuries.
As for the war crimes... There wasn't a single war in recorded history where autrocities were commited only by one side. That's why it's funny to hear Russians or Ukranians today saying "our well-behaved soldiers are merciful angels and their soldiers are monsters who torture, kill and rape innocent civilians and pows alike".
It's not only the Kwantung Army btw, Japanese did a lot of interesting stuff during the war. Manila, Singapore massacres, you name it.
>It was not commanded by the military, but by individual decisions
Are you familiar with results of the Nuremberg trials?
>Ryukyu islands, which are part of Japan today, are still not treated the same, overall life quality and development opportinuties are much lower.
How can you say such a thing when you do not live in Japan? It is not something you have seen with your own eyes, it is just stupid information you have seen on the internet.
> And before now, Japanese opressed local culture and languages for centuries.
And before now, Japanese opressed local culture and languages for centuries. Please don't make it sound as if Japan was the only country that suppressed language and culture. And Japan has never suppressed language, culture, etc. for centuries.
>As for the war crimes... There wasn't a single war in recorded history where autrocities were commited only by one side.
I am well aware of that. But at the time of the Tokyo Trials, "only the defeated Japanese (including those who were not guilty)" were unilaterally judged by the US. You are right, Japan is not the only one who committed war crimes. There are Americans who committed war crimes, but the U.S. was not judged at all because it was the "victorious nation. In addition, the U.S. committed the biggest war crime of all, the dropping of the atomic bombs, and yet they were never tried. Can you explain why?
>It's not only the Kwantung Army btw, Japanese did a lot of interesting stuff during the war. Manila, Singapore massacres, you name it.
The Japanese army during the Greater East Asia War was low on ammo and supplies. Yet, did the Japanese really use their precious ammunition and supplies just to "kill time" by "massacring"? Why do you distort history? You sound like an anti-Japanese Korean/Chinese, which is pathetic.
>Are you familiar with the results of the Nuremberg trials?
Why did the Nuremberg trials come up? That has nothing to do with Japan's story with the war, does it? Please don't shift the point just because the debate is weak.
> when you do not live in Japan?
I've been there, and I have friends who live there. It's not 1830s anymore.
> if Japan was the only country that suppressed language and culture
I never said that. Dutch did a lot of that, for example. But defending this behaviour and saying "it was treated as part of Japan" isn't right.
> use their precious ammunition and supplies
With Singapore it was still the beginning of the war.
And with Manila - you don't need a lot of ammo and supplies for mass rapes of already opressed locals. Especially when you know your people won't make it out alive.
You could really research more on the topic.
> That has nothing to do with Japan's story with the war
The reasoning and outcomes are quite similar though.
> Please don't shift the point just because the debate is weak.
Why did you bring up Americans then? They did their share of war crimes, that's true but it doesn't make those commited by Japan any better or any less real.
>But defending this behaviour and saying "it was treated as part of Japan" isn't right.
I am not defending such behavior, rather I am condemning this behavior (language and cultural suppression). But Japan does not engage in such behavior. If there were, it would be in very few cases. Suppose they did suppress language and culture. But I can assure you this much. But I can assure you that it was a very mild suppression compared to the language and cultural suppression of the powerful nations of the time!
And the Hangeul alphabet on the Korean peninsula was once extinct. But ironically, it was Japan that revived the Hangeul alphabet.
And one more thing, Korea was like a prefecture of Japan. What else can be said other than "it was part of Japan"?
>With Singapore it was still the beginning of the war.
Especially when you know your people won't make it out alive. Especially when you know your people won't make it out alive.
I don't care if the war had just started or not. I am saying that the Japanese military would not have bothered to use ammo and supplies for "massacres".
Also, Japanese do not rape in war zones. Even if they did, I can assure you that there was absolutely no mass rape. And the only people who would rape would be the powerful nations of the time and the Chinese military." Please don't mix up "China" and "Japan".
>You could really research more on the topic.
I will return this comment to you in its entirety.
>The reasoning and outcomes are quite similar though.
It is obvious that the results were similar because the "methods" of these trials were very similar, and it is obvious that there were far fewer "true" Japanese war criminals than "true" German war criminals.
And while the Nuremberg Trials were barely under the jurisdiction of the Allies, the Tokyo Trials were led by the US alone. What these two trials have in common is that "many innocent people were accused of crimes for the convenience of the victorious powers.
>it was a very mild suppression
If someone commits a murder, should they be released of all charges if somebody else commited another murder near that time and that murder was more violent?
I hope you're just having fun, you can't say something like that seriously.
> it was Japan that revived the Hangeul alphabet
Is this some alternative history? Hangeul was revived shortly before the annexation, and later Japan banned teaching Korean in schools altogether.
> would not have bothered to use ammo and supplies for "massacres"
Yeah, killing a person is so hard and requires so many supplies and ammo.
Average number of shots fired for a single kill during WWII infantry combat was about 40k. To kill strangled civilian you only need one single shot. Or you can even use a knife, hammer or whatever else there's around you.
> the Tokyo Trials were led by the US alone
Yes, that's why I asked you about the Nuremberg trials specifically. And I asked you also because there were cases when war crimes were not commanded but just silently allowed by the military command too. It's not about winners and losers, it's about shit humans (of all nations) do when they're allowed to.
Our schools also dont mention anything about out war crimes, Uruguay mass raped paraguayans, tortured commies.
I dont know what Peru could done, but im pretty sure Chile raped Lima when they conquered it, and Chile dont feel any guilt for that like the Germans. Who knows how many undocumented war crimes exists
Guilt is a sign of weakness, Strong nations dont teach their children about muh war crimes, lool at Japan or Turkey, they show no guilt of what they done in the past. Because only cucks do that.
>uwugay
>stronk
Pic related. Are you seriously grouping uwugay with "strong nations"? Thanks for the laugh.
Now let's go point by point:
>Our schools also dont mention anything about out war crimes, Uruguay mass raped paraguayans, tortured commies.
That war happened more than 150 years ago, and uwugay is extremely irrelevant, so irrelevant that your country only provided 5500 troops to that war so they probably did not rape anyone kek. About commies, it does not have anything to do with war crimes. Offtopic.
>but im pretty sure Chile raped Lima when they conquered it
First of all they did not conquer Lima, they occupied it, learn the difference between a conquest and an occupation. By that logic you would be macaco or a moortuguese because they occupied the Banda Oriental for some time (and I would be a roto because they occupied Lima, my home town for sometime).
Second, yes, rotos invaders commited a lot of war crimes when they invaded my country. Repaso (killing the wounded soldiers, which was already established as a war crime by the Geneva Convention of 1864), raping, pillaging (burning and destroying buildings, stealing valuable items like paintings, books, jewelry, luxurious furniture, etc. that my country and specially Lima was full it), etc. Not to mention they broke every armistice and every agreement they proposed. Contemporary rotos do not feel guilt, they actually feel proud of the war crimes of their ancestors (their history books put them as heroes instead of the common criminals and scum they really were, considering that they used real criminals and prisoners for this war effort). But Chile is not a strong nation (they have good planes but they can't use them without gringo's authorization, not to mention they have 0 real combat experience because the last war they fought is the one we are talking about and they always get REKT by Peruvian forces in war games the US makes with other Latin American countries), they live terrified of a war with any of it's neighbours (check their war doctrine) because they know that the dishonorable behaviour they ancestors did will escalate into a triple front war and probably most of it's population will be killed and most of it's territories will be annexed IF that country continues to exist after war (that would be generous to say the least). This is what happens when your nation has that kind of dishonorable behaviour you are glorifying like an edgy kid.
>dont feel any guilt for that like the Germans
What the fuck are you talking about, contemporary German society it's built upon guilt because of the actions of the Third Reich. It's against the law to say Holocaust isn't real and you can get into jail just by saving Nazi symbols in your PC. Now you are talking from your ass.
>lool at Japan or Turkey, they show no guilt of what they done in the past. Because only cucks do that.
Calling a literal puppet as Japan a strong nation is laughable. They can't move a finger without gringo's authorization and they have gringo bases in their country, they are as cuck and castrated as contemporary Germans are. Second, you can't compare things that happed 140 years ago (as the rotos invading my country) or 150 years ago (war of the triple alliance) with things that happened during and after WWI (Armenian Genocide) or things that happened during WWII for the case of Japan. The wounds of these events are still fresh, ask chinks or Koreans.
>Guilt is a sign of weakness
This is what a sociopath would say. The issue here is not being proud of war crimes (as rotos) or evading the guilt from war crimes (as Japan and Turkey), the thing is to teach real history as it happened, with it's good deeds and bad deeds, it's about objectivity.
And if you believe that by going to war you must commit war crimes, you are mistaken (well, your whole reasoning sounds like an edgy kid). Peruvian soldiers, for example, have not done any war crimes during the following campaings where they occupied enemy territory:
- Reconquering of Alto Peru by Ejercito Real del Peru (1810-1823)
- Reconquering of Chile by the Ejercito Real del Peru (1814-1817)
- Santa Cruz auxiliary expedition to Quito (1822)
- Peruvian intervention in Bolivia (1828)
- War against Bolivia (1841-1842)
- First war against Ecuador (1858-1860)
- Second war against Ecuador (1941-1942). Here our soldiers were greeted as heroes by the civil population because the Ecuadorian police and armed forces started pillaging their own towns and cities, and we arrived with rations to distribute to the civilians that were starving because of the aforementioned pillaging.
I do not count the war against Colombia because we occupied territory that was full of Peruvians, for obvious reasons no need to signal that no war crimes were commited here.
It is only fair to recognize war crimes, story can not be deleted and the truth will always be known at the end. Even Germans recognize the war crimes at WWII and Russians recognize the war crimes Soviets did during WWII too.
Now, fuck off.
>Pic related. Are you seriously grouping uwugay with "strong nations"? Thanks for the laugh.
Never said all countries who deny their war crimes are strong, atleast in military or geopolitical terms, but even if my country is not that strong, we have a strong mentality btw, you cant understand what im trying to say.
>That war happened more than 150 years ago, and uwugay is extremely irrelevant, so irrelevant that your country only provided 5500 troops to that war so they probably did not rape anyone kek. About commies, it does not have anything to do with war crimes. Offtopic.
You are very desilusional if you think that armies dont commit war crimes when they are deployed, the war on Paraguay was one of the most brutal, because we had even to fight against children, and God knows what other things could have happen and we dont know it, Paraguay industry, male population and territory were destroyed, and i dont see Brazilians, Argentinians or Uruguayans feel guilt for that, exept for leftists and some minor nationalist organizations.
>First of all they did not conquer Lima, they occupied it, learn the difference between a conquest and an occupation. By that logic you would be macaco or a moortuguese because they occupied the Banda Oriental for some time (and I would be a roto because they occupied Lima, my home town for sometime).
You are right, occupying and conquer is not the same thing, but my point still stands Chile buck broke Peru and they dont feel shsme for that.
>Second, yes, rotos invaders commited a lot of war crimes when they invaded my country. Repaso (killing the wounded soldiers, which was already established as a war crime by the Geneva Convention of 1864), raping, pillaging (burning and destroying buildings, stealing valuable items like paintings, books, jewelry, luxurious furniture, etc. that my country and specially Lima was full it), etc. Not to mention they broke every armistice and every agreement they proposed. Contemporary rotos do not feel guilt, they actually feel proud of the war crimes of their ancestors (their history books put them as heroes instead of the common criminals and scum they really were, considering that they used real criminals and prisoners for this war effort). But Chile is not a strong nation (they have good planes but they can't use them without gringo's authorization, not to mention they have 0 real combat experience because the last war they fought is the one we are talking about and they always get REKT by Peruvian forces in war games the US makes with other Latin American countries), they live terrified of a war with any of it's neighbours (check their war doctrine) because they know that the dishonorable behaviour they ancestors did will escalate into a triple front war and probably most of it's population will be killed and most of it's territories will be annexed IF that country continues to exist after war (that would be generous to say the least). This is what happens when your nation has that kind of dishonorable behaviour you are glorifying like an edgy kid.
Is not about glorifying war crimes, guilt plays a huge role in the political scene, because it weakens the nationalism and the nation, and the guilt always come from leftists groups specially cosmopolitans, You can see that in Germany, a cosmopilitan country at this point. If they want to implement right wing policies they couldnt because Nazis did it, and they must avoid the past at all costs. And you can cope all the time, but Chile is a strong nation maybe not globally but in our continent, the third in the rankings in hispanic america, stronger than Peru, they have war experience also, because they send countries to fight terrorism for the UN like most of latin countries do.
>What the fuck are you talking about, contemporary German society it's built upon guilt because of the actions of the Third Reich. It's against the law to say Holocaust isn't real and you can get into jail just by saving Nazi symbols in your PC. Now you are talking from your ass.
Grammar error, my point is that Turkey and Japan dont feel any guilt, unlike Germany who is cucked.
>Calling a literal puppet as Japan a strong nation is laughable. They can't move a finger without gringo's authorization and they have gringo bases in their country, they are as cuck and castrated as contemporary Germans are. Second, you can't compare things that happed 140 years ago (as the rotos invading my country) or 150 years ago (war of the triple alliance) with things that happened during and after WWI (Armenian Genocide) or things that happened during WWII for the case of Japan. The wounds of these events are still fresh, ask chinks or Koreans.
They are a puppet country, but a very strong one, look at globalfirepower and see how Strong Japan self defence powers are, and they are rearming more now. The reasons why Japanese arent cucked like post war germany is because US werent able to put a program like the denazification one, they didnt even killed their emperor, the rising sun flag is still legal, Japan still has something of the Yamato Spirit, they discriminate foreigners, while germans will welcome niggers because the nazis hated them and they must do the opossite always.
>And if you believe that by going to war you must commit war crimes, you are mistaken (well, your whole reasoning sounds like an edgy kid). Peruvian soldiers, for example, have not done any war crimes during the following campaings where they occupied enemy territory:
This is just cope, "my country did not commit any warcrimes but my enemy did"
>It is only fair to recognize war crimes, story can not be deleted and the truth will always be known at the end. Even Germans recognize the war crimes at WWII and Russians recognize the war crimes Soviets did during WWII too.
Do you think Russians kid in school learn about the rape of Berlin? I dont think so, and truth will never be know, victors writte the history after all, the only way to know history accurately is with a time machine.
>If someone commits a murder, should they be released of all charges if somebody else commited another murder near that time and that murder was more violent?
Why did you make such a poor analogy? There are many funny parts, but I will only point out one this time. I did say that the Japanese military did indeed suppress language and culture, and that it did so more lightly and less frequently than the powers of the time. And this is sadly "true". But please read the statement in >275722 once again.Did you finish reading.
"Did I say even one word of "because it was the Japanese military, all their language and cultural oppression is allowed"? You didn't say that, did you?
I would like you to improve your reading comprehension of the text. Then we can have a higher quality debate.
>Is this some alternative history? Hangeul was revived shortly before the annexation, and later Japan banned teaching Korean in schools altogether.
Yeah, he seems to have had a very intense anti-Japanese upbringing. (Or brainwashed by anti-Japanese Koreans/Chinese.) Then let me, this Japanese, explain.
First of all, the Korean language used by the ruling class in Korea as a written language, a language of culture, and a language of politics, was "Hanbun", not "Korean" (there was no written language to begin with, and although there was the "Bireiyomi", which was like Manyogana, to add Korean notes to Hanbun, it never developed or spread in any particular way. ).
However, since the common people would have been troubled by this, they ordered scholars to create a script to write "Joseonese" (not necessarily entirely based on the Joseon language, but it was also intended to be used as a kana so that Chinese characters could be read properly), but it was not particularly popularized or educated, and the Chinese language, Confucian studies, and Zhuji studies were the most popular. The scholars who thought that Chinese literature, Confucianism, and Jujitsu were the best, and that it was impossible to study or do politics in the Korean language, and the village Confucian scholars who would have played a leading role in the education, if it had been conducted, were not interested in teaching the Korean language or studying in the Korean language at all, but rather, were more interested in passing the Joseon-style kwaju (examination). They had no interest in teaching the Korean language or learning Korean, and even when it was forbidden or not available, they made no actual efforts to promote and educate people in the Korean language.
It would be an exaggeration to say that the Hunmin-jeongeum was never used for practical purposes, but Korean scholars were not basically interested in studying their own literature, language, or history, as, for example, Hon'yi Nobunaga did with the Manyoshu and Kojiki in Japan, even after the Japanese Meiji period. It was Japanese scholars (not to say that Koreans were not involved at all) who studied the grammar of the Korean language, discovered the Hunmin-jeongeum as the script for writing the Korean alphabet, and developed the Korean alphabet that has been used to this day (including the deletion of obsolete characters and rearrangement of writing due to phonetic changes since that time), It was also the Japanese government that established a system to teach this to all Koreans in schools.
Because of this history, it is misleading and inaccurate to say that "the Japanese created Hangeul," but there is no doubt that it is a figure of speech.
At the very least, it is a complete falsehood, or at least political propaganda, to say that the "Hunminjeongeum (Hangul alphabet)" created by King Sejong the Great "spread and developed as it did, leading to today's Hangeul".
> Yeah, killing a person is so hard and requires so many supplies and ammo.
Average number of shots fired for a single kill during WWII infantry combat was about 40k. To kill strangled civilian you only need one single shot. Or you can even use a knife, hammer or whatever else there's around you.
Hah, don't make me say the same thing over and over again.
The Japanese army with few supplies and resources would not bother to use even a single bullet just to "pass the time" of that "massacre"! Even if it was a knife, they would never use it. They would not use even a knife, because they would not want the blade to get damaged just to "pass the time" of "massacre". How many times do I have to tell you? Please understand what I'm saying.
>Yes, that's why I asked you about the Nuremberg trials specifically. And I asked you also because there were cases when war crimes were not commanded but just silently allowed by the military command too. It's not about winners and losers, it's about shit humans (of all nations) do when they're allowed to.
"The Nuremberg Trials were barely under the jurisdiction of the Allies".
Remember this part here. Even if you are weak in debate, it would be a bad idea to ignore this important sentence here.
So you're offering me non-scientific articles about mere influence and personal blogs (all sourceless) as proofs. I've been around linguistic community too long to even consider these as meaningful. Yes, of course there were some influence as people co-existed somehow, and every language of common people had influence from administrative language when these are different. It doesn't mean the common language or its writing system was not oppresed though.
> Then let me, this Japanese, explain
Well, that's funny and even cute that you find your position of being Japanese (or that of your sources) advantegeous in discussions about Japanese war crimes and opressions. Isn't it obvious that country that commits a crime would be the first trying to cover it up and brainwash its own citizens? I think you might want to reconsider this point of view before trying to have a "debate" as you call it.
And trying to build your arguments purely around your own logic when lots of archeological, documental and otherwise contemporary evidence exists is also something you may want to reconsider btw.
>So you're offering me non-scientific articles about mere influence and personal blogs (all sourceless) as proofs.
So on the contrary, on what basis are you basing your statements (based on your sources)? Are those sources not shitty statements written by a stupid anti-Japanese guy?
Are you saying this without any evidence (sources)? No way, right?
>I've been around linguistic community too long to even consider these as meaningful.
"I've been around linguistic community too long..." I'm not sure if you should call yourself that. I think that is for others to say, not for you to say.
Anyone can easily say such a thing.
>Well, that's funny and even cute that you find your position of being Japanese (or that of your sources) advantegeous in discussions about Japanese war crimes and opressions.
I don't think or write that "being Japanese" is an advantage in this discussion... What makes you think that?
You say you are not a good reader of texts... Are you by any chance a schizophrenic? Thank you for taking the trouble to comment from the hospital! 😉
>Isn't it obvious that country that commits a crime would be the first trying to cover it up and brainwash its own citizens?
Yes, I agree with you, it's not obvious that the country would be the first trying to cover up and brainwash its own citizens! You are right!
Huh? The Netherlands does not brainwash? No, right? We do brainwash in the Netherlands, don't we? Please don't put your country (and yourself) on the shelf.
Also, you are brainwashed by anti-Japanese bastards. Of course I am not "brainwashed" about me!!! I am not going to say.
>And trying to build your arguments purely around your own logic when lots of archeological, documental and otherwise contemporary evidence exists is also something you may want to reconsider btw.
That applies to you as well! 😊
Please stop putting yourself on the shelf and talking as if "I" am the only one who is wrong.
To be honest Koreans under Japanese rule had it better. Right after they were taken out of their supervision commies invaded they tore the country apart in two, caused massive war with huge casualties - a war btw has not yet closed down up to this day - and destined half of the country to stagnation and starvation for a long time.
Problem with Korea is that it was always situated between a strong continental power (be it Chinese, Mongol, or Russian at any time) and Japan which always perceived as the way into Japan for an invading foreign power (as it is), and in the times when Japan found itself, she found to power to do against it. So Korea found itself between the rock and a hard place. Japan was banned to defend herself basically this is why Korea got to be the victim of the commies and the US had to make the realization that her newly acquired pet Japan - and her Pacific Ocean hegemony - is in danger and hat to intervene.
It was too little and too late tho. Now we have this powder keg and have to worry about the Fat Rocketman (or at least they try to scare us with).
As for the Koreans, do they have it better now? Do they really have the freedom of choice for themselves? Not North, but not even South.
So in the grand scheme of things they were better with the Japs.
My sources are international, referenced, discussed and accepted by authors all over the world. That's why they teach this is schools, and not your alternative history.
> you are not a good reader of texts
Learn some English and stop using translator btw. It messes up all the pronouns which makes it really hard to read you, and it seems it works even worse in the opposite direction as you don't seem to understand a half of what I'm saying.
That's partially right. But on the other hand, without the Japanese rule in 20th century and rhe oppression it brought to destroy the Korean identity, the Korean war could have ended up differently, who knows. Same goes for Manchuria. Japanese are partially responsible for all the commies in the region, isn't that ironic?
Japan is an extremely gregarious society, with honor and loyalty to the death as historical cultural values.
When Douglas MacArthur was given the order to rebuild Japan, he knew from his personal ties to Asia for much of his life that if he were to do away with the entire millennia-old imperial political structure overnight, it would probably start a civil war.
Japan was given many freedoms, because unlike the Nazis, it fought the second world war as the great empires fought the first world war, that is to say at the social level, the majority of the population believed blindly in the emperor, who by the way WAS A GOD ACCORDING TO JAPANESE LAW. (The gringos changed the Japanese constitution to remove his divine right).
With a war that without the bombs would have required a land invasion of Japan, and where the Japanese army had no intention of surrendering (it was retreating from China and Korea for the defense of Japan) no one wanted to risk a pro-monarchist guerrilla struggle.
From 1910 to 1945, the Korean Peninsula was a Japanese territory, so "Koreans" did not exist and were treated as "Japanese".
It is a fact that Koreans were forced to study Japanese as part of the imperialization policy in order to become Japanese during this period.
Of course, they were not forced to learn only Japanese, but they were taught using textbooks with Hangul in them.
Toward the end of the war, the degree of coercion became much stronger, and it seems that the Korean language was eliminated in a way that differentiated and eliminated dialects, as in the process of unifying the Japanese language, but we Japanese do not have to feel guilty about this.
I don't think we Japanese need to feel guilty about that.
If Korea was an independent nation at that time and Japanese language was forced to be used there, it would be a big problem,
As I wrote in the beginning, Korea did not exist from 1910 to 1945 and was a Japanese territory, so whatever was done there was only due to the "circumstances of the time" and not something that should be measured by today's values.
It was only natural for the military to enforce Japanese language at the end of the war.
A person who only understands Korean and Hangeul cannot be used as a soldier, and the army cannot unify its will. It was a matter of course under the system of universal conscription and all-out warfare, and I think it was due to the "circumstances of the time" and not something to be measured by the values of the present day.
Q: Was Korea a colony of Japan?
A:
It was annexed, not colonized.
Korea wanted to become independent from the miserable vassal state, so Korea wanted to be annexed to Japan.
This is known throughout the world.
The reason why Korea is called a colony is to erase from history the period when Korea was a slave-like vassal state because the fabricated history it created was too good to be true.
If it were known that Korea was annexed by Japan and given independence, the people of Korea would find out about the fabricated history.
A2:
Japan also annexed Korea, and it was Japan that made Korea independent from (Qing) China, but in Korean textbooks (Article 1 of the Treaty of Shimonoseki) is all but erased because it shows Korea as a vassal state.
It seems that although they educated Koreans in Japanese, they did not go so far as to completely deprive Koreans of the Korean language. According to a Japanese translation of a Korean broadcasting history website, Japanese-language broadcasting by the Korean Broadcasting Corporation was discontinued in September 1945, immediately after the liberation of Korea; the proclamation posters of the Provisional People's Committee of North Korea used a lot of Chinese characters but did not include hiragana or other Japanese characters. and a photo of a welcome convention to welcome Kim Il Sung home shows the " The fact that the "banner" behind the banner is written in a mixture of Chinese characters and Korean characters suggests that the Japanese language had not penetrated the Korean people for a long time. (Or, perhaps, the structure of Japanese and Korean was not as strong as it had been in the past. (Or, given the similarity in structure between Japanese and Korean, it may be that knowledge and information coming from Japan could be converted into Korean relatively easily.)
People in Korea say things like "36 years of Japanese colonial rule, (Annexation, not colony)" but in terms of full years, it was only 34 years and 10 months.
Schools were basically in Japanese, but Korean was also available, and the Korean language was compulsory until 1940. It was during this period that Hangeul became widespread.
Q: What is the Miracle on the Han River?
A: The Miracle on the Hangang
The Miracle on the Han River was the result of the South Korean government using all of the reparations (including those for comfort women) paid by Japan to South Korea.
Devastated after the Korean War, Korea was the poorest country in the world until the early 1960s, with a GDP below that of North Korea.
Such a revived South Korea lied to the Japanese side that it would pay its citizens individually under the Japan-Korea Claims Agreement, and the $300 million in grant money paid as a claims fund was used to fund domestic investment for the development of the South Korean economy.
As a result, Korea developed into one of the world's top 10 economic powers in half a century, and the Korean companies that benefited from this development grew into huge conglomerates.
This is the trajectory of the Han River.
Have you actually read the bs you're posting? There're contradictions literally between the next two sentences. And some parts of that clearly say I was right so I don' t know what you're trying to achieve, please stop spamming. Also, no valid sources again.
And stop calling me anti-Japanese which I'm not. Japanese are just people like you and me, I have nothing against them. I'm simply anti-false history.
I am not "spamming", I am simply quoting from "Yahoo Wisdom" what you seem to be "questioning".
I am not trying to tell a "false history". However, I am not 100% sure that the history I am telling/thinking is "100%" correct.
You will probably have the same reaction as I do when asked if your history is "100%" correct.
Well, in any case, it does not mean that either of us is telling a "100%" correct history.
I have told you what I think is my own version of history, and I am sure that you will agree with me that it is not the history you think it is.
And I have found out for sure that your idea of history and my idea of history are two completely different things.
So tell me what you mean by "correct/true history". I want to know how it differs from the history I know.
If there is anything different from what I think history is, I will point it out to you.
Also, where are you referring to inconsistencies?
And I am sorry for calling you "anti-Japanese".
i dunno, it might not be failure, because its actually too early to judge. Often the pressure builds, builds, builds and then it breaks, all at once.
Country Y can generate pressure for a long time, and just waiting for the mistake of country R and then the pressure countour will be breached. Mistake can come from the troops, or from the top, or even combination of two.
>Japanese are partially responsible for all the commies in the region, isn't that ironic?
Considering Russo-Japanese War was a proxy war between Germany-England-US and Russia, with Japan being the proxy ofc, Germany, England, and the US are responsible for the oppression of Koreans, the destruction of their identity, and partiylla for the commies in the region.
Well, they are also responsible indeed and that's why I said "partially". There's also Viet Cong which is mostly French and British fault.
But I don't think you can call Russo-Japanese war a proxy war as (unlike former colonies) Japan was also intensively promoting its own interests and had some means to do that.
>You were given order to hold positions by Kondor
>yeah, we did, but we are only three. Who are you anyway? We only got from there, go there yourself and hold position
>you were given order! I will kill you
>kill yourself (cocks gun)
>oh, ok, ok. Give me grenade. Not this one, another one
>catch, faggots.
>ahhhh, PIDOR!
1. Who was he anyway?
2. What type of grenate he used?
I mean, one was that smart to cock his ak on him. Now that's mutiny, not "just" refusing to execute order. Which in itself should result in execution. A soldier when faces the choice of might dying and dying for sure, they'll pick the might dying; but if they allowed to get away without capital punishment, like might dying vs. prison and especially might dying vs doing what the fuckever they want, they'll pick the latter. In peacetime.sure use different negative feedback, but in war, especially when they can put their own comrades life in danger, those who depend on their service, or even more dire consequences can follow...
I would argue that other motivations should come first to make soldiers do their duty. For example shitty system and shitty officers can be devastating for the morale as well. But as an ultimate reply death should be there among the tools.
We also don't know wider context of the video (the who was he anyway question is part of that).
This war is theatrical, for Russia intended Iraq/livian role in the end that one will die like Milošević or Saddam after the loss of the rest of the weapons. Russian mil and gov command hired by deepstate and never let them win. Both sides propaganda is carried out by the same people, only the faces are different - listen these sides = eat shit.
In 90s Russia lost many production capacity and started use soviet ammo only on Russia stocks. On the Syrian adventure ru army lost many soviet armament, then lost too many armament in Ukraine. Current capacity is too small for mass production and Nato countries know this and give Ukraine as much as needs for disarmament but not for victory.
Ukraine evacuating Sumy Oblast. Why? Do they think they can repeat Prigozhin's march on Moscow while Russian forces dug up in Kherson and Zaporozhzhzhzass?
Its so funny. Prigozhin before the mutiny even suggested that monke may allow this, just so that je could nuke Russsss territory proper, just to show the world that "he still got it", while also pussying out to do it on the territory of Ukraine out of fear of retaliation. So monkey theoretically may drop nuclear banana on Ruthenian land, just to scare Ukrainians. (in reality Ukrainians would just die of laughter of course, but monke thinks this will show his strength)
Either that, or Ukraine with the help of Britain attacks nuclear power plant ZPP and claim its actually Russia that attack itself, same as when Russians supposedly blew up Nord Stream 2, or Kremlin, or Kahovka dam. People are so dumb, Ukraine might just blow up its own plant and contaminate its territory in hopes that this would drag NATO into the conflict. As if NATO is willing to fight Russia on contaminated Ukrainian land, but thats beyond the point.
The longer shitshow lasts, the higher chances are there is going to be some nuclear twist to it.
Prigozhin's march could have an interesting effect.
Many are disappointed that the spring/summer "counter" offensive isn't going as speedy as the Kherson and Kharkov ones. Now that they saw that it's so easy just roll through Russia, the public opinion might pressure Ukrainians to do something in Moscow direction.
Problem is in theory they can't use Western toys for this, but then they have the weapons, Biden can't prevent them to use them.
Further problem is: with what force? They prepared that 12 brigades of 40K people, and I think most units still haven't been committed, but those who did are getting eroded by the day, and this offensive still have to go on at least to July 11-12, because they have to show results till the NATO summit.
Going from
1) TEMPO TEMPO TOKMAT TOMORROW, BERDYANSK NEXT DAY, MARIUPOL AT THE END OF THE MONTH, CRIMEA BY AUTUMN!!! WE TAKING IT BACK, WE TAKING IT AAAAALLLL BACK!! FAST FAST FAST!
to
2) vitayte pls understand, its hard, it takes time, we just dismantling defences, here is 20 tweet coppeee explanation why it is YUO!! who is wrong for having false expectations, but counter-offensive going according to plan, it takes time ok?? vybachte, ok? Dyakuy
It took 9 months to take the heavily fortified Bakhmut, AFU have to do the same now, so in itself it is reasonable to say so.
But yeah, after all the hype and inflated expectations, these posts look like (and are) damage control. But time itself makes people to forget, and repeating these lines also makes people think they always believed so. Such cases.
I can say with confidence, that Ruthenian government got a little more serious about war production. Just a bit. Because the big boys, big name politicians started regularly visit millitary factories. Why does it mean more serious? Because often the visit of big boss is like a catalyst to "get your shit together" and many factories start moving when they are visited by important person, they stop fiddling their thumbs and clean shit, put people to work, activate. And since the big faces regularly go everywhere, everyone starts moving. Its not a big plus, but its something. Before - big faces were doing...something, but not this.
they bombed something, but again it can be repaired in a few week, or two months top.
We built that bridge - all 100 sections of it. If hohols destroy 1 section out of 100, 99 are still intact and we can build that one section again. If this bridge was built instead by China, and so if Russia had no expertise in bridge-building - then knocking off one segment would be really devastating, because we would had to rely on China for repairs, like many countries do.
Well, some would say its just part and parcel of life in Crimea. They have very expensive property, you know. Even now, after bridge being bombed two times, after no water in cannal, after drones sometimes falling near cities - Crimean homes are very very expensive. Like fuck, have some mercy motherfuckers, lower the prices! But they say "No".
For comparison, i could buy a flat in Donetsk city for cheap even now, for 11 000 $ ! Maybe some of them have shattered windows and shrapnel in the walls and if you go to buy grocceries you can die from artillery strike, but think about how cheap it is!
And meanwhile in Crimea, property costs 4.5 times that, mother fuckers are relentless.
How can one man spew so many lies and inacuracies in just 3 posts??? The last year attack only temporarily damaged the bridge and it was restored to full condition. Both auto-spans and rail-span were repaired and fully functioning in a month!
And this guy just lies that all the time railroad was not working and that one of the auto-spans was offline. its when we have video filmed from the railroad train passing by yesterday damage! He lies about such obvious things, think about how many other things he just pulls out of his ass without proof!!!
Peter Zeihan is a stand-up comedian who makes up lies that please Western audiences, telling them what they want to hear, so they could feel goody-goody in their tummy, sleeping tight and cozy, knowing they are supperior to everyone else in the world even if they just suck their finger and do nothing
So almost 2 months passed by - time to count. Ukraine is fluctuating between 0 and 1.
0. Counter-offensive defeated, no gains for Ukraine
1. Counter-offensive defeated, Ukraine gains 2 to 5 villages they lost in 2023
They couldn't get even one middle city, nothing to show for all the hype so far. Like a scrawny boy who was going to the gym, telling everyone about it and no gainz in months, he is just as scrawny and skinny, no muscle gained.
Claims and continuous control are diffrent, because i heard that Russians took back some villages too. This is just mud-wresstling, leaving and takingover, leaving and taking back insignificant shitholes with 50 wooden huts intersperced with daring pushes into the minefields and literal "fields" and occasional deepstrikes into Russia with advanced Western missile technology. This is not enough to change the status quo significantly.
So if someone would show me this map back in May and said that resutls of Ukraine's countrer offensive would be just those areas in the blue - i'd say "You gotta be shitting me, dude. Are you some kind of Kremlin propagandist or something?"
Was this worth all the hype, lives and losses? We are here trying to maintain relatively cozy atmosphere, without gore posting (unless some crazy Polish idiot shows up) but we all know what kinds of videos circulating online from both sides. Shit isn't worth it.
nah, buddy.
in a few months its going to get very dirty, moisty, roads will become impossible to drive on because of deep dirt. Then the winter will start with cold and shit. And then the spring with even more deep dirt you can't drive through. And then maybe, just maybe they will begin hyping some new offensive, new meme, new wunderwaffe, trying to forget about this one.
How do you know Russia is losing? Excellent Ukrainian operational security has mostly blacked out news for the front.
1. Russians are asking for a ceasefire. Russia desperately wants to freeze the battlefield;
2. They are sending less trained soldiers into battle in large numbers. The best RF units have been eviscerated;
3. Most conscripts sent in now are equipped with ancient Russian helmets and very old weapons and nothing else. They often seem to have been drafted only weeks before their capture (no training);
4. Russians, boasting of making hundreds of T90M tanks, seem only able to send ancient T62/T54s into UKR now. Every day the Ukrainian military grows more modern than the Russians;
5. Russia has stripped its other borders of military personnel and equipment;
6. The refugee flow to Poland, where I live, is almost nothing now. I drive right by their embassy every week, where there were big lines in the early months of the war. Many Ukrainians actually going home now.
7. Russian military bloggers are not making the rosy reports like the Kremlin post. They also totally contradict the Russian trolls on Twitter.
8. The Russian economy is tanking. Ruble is rapidly becoming worthless;
9. We do not see many new videos or photos on Twitter from pro-Russian sources depicting great tactical victories. The isolated instances have been re-posted hundreds of times. One Russian guy just admitted this.
10. Dozens of Russian units and their families back home are posting videos asking for help due to their lack of support on the front and the "suicide" missions that they are asked to perform.
11. Russian units are starting to see mutinies and desertions on a bigger scale;
12. Ukrainian drones operate feely on the battlefield and deep into Russian lines. Air defense has been shredded by UKR precision artillery and drone strikes;
13. No Russian advance is ultimately successful and only leads to massive losses. They are drawn into combat and destroyed. Russians units have lost most of their combat effectiveness.
None of these indicators reflect any chance that Russia is winning or that the war is even a "stalemate" right now. Confirmation will be forthcoming as major Ukrainians victories are very close now.
Plus, i don't think Ukraine is out of options. They can just escalate. If the situation is a stale mate, it can be broken by unorthodox measures. Like what if they decide to attack Belarus, or Transinistria out of the blue? Invade Russian oblast of Belgorod with significant forces? Shit like that can shift balance of power and attract attention or provoke Russian reaction which will attract attention. Ukraine is feeding on attention from other countries and victimhood status, so they may do a lot of wakky shit.
>Significant forces.
Bro.
They sent children and elderly to the front lines 2 years ago. Now they're sending women.
There is no significant forces. There might be "numbers" in civilian population, but training soldiers takes years.
Fucking go back to ukraine, you're gonna be left stranded in russia like a japanese trooper in phillipines after 1942.
>They can still try to do a remake of counter offensive next year
I'd bet they'll do that.
Setting up new brigades, and refilling, rearming the worn-out ones is continuous. They need some months, half a year for the training. The training of the pilots is ongoing for some months now perhaps the beginning of the year (besides the F-16 we - Hungary - probably train some for Gripens). Now they know what they are lacking, and everything can be given to them. If it can be produced.
One chief problem is the ammunition, especially artillery, but sure there is already a plan in motion.
Well, our side is slowly getting better and better too. We developin new guided bombs and rockets, plus at the begining of this - there were only Ukrainians FPV and grenade hovering drones, but now we also show these horrible videos.
So its not like "oh, Ukraine needs some time and they will get new forces, new ammo, new tech and will try again"
no, our side also streamlines some production lines, develops new weapon systems. Sure, some can post "cope cages" on tanks and laugh, pretending that this our "innovation", but there are legit new missiles that appeared only after 2022 and we start to use them now for the first time.
Zelensky cleared political field from all the political opponents so thourougly that there are no one to challenge him, and even if as part of political campaign someone would try to criticize him, they can just call that person pro-Russian and throw him in jail. Thats going to be a sham election, just a show for western audiences to prove to them, that this is a "democracy" where elections happen.
atleast 3 parties on the list weren't russophiles or commies, but they've been bunch up with commies and russophiles so you wouldn't get nuanced and just throw them in with the rest of them.
You are interracting with the Russian now, so in a way someone with bad faith can also say that "Slovjak/germcrobe was exchanging information with Russians in pro-Russian threads anonomous threads about operation in Ukraine, he is clearly a russian shill" and then no one will even hear your excuses and then you will never wash away the label.
You know, i often asked Americans the same question about Iraq and Afghanistan war. And you know what their answer was? This was the matter of "national security" and they refused to elaborate.
So i'll return it back to you - Special millitary operation is a matter of national security and national security is not negotiable)) oh, and the latest hit popularized by Israel "We have the right to defend ourselves".
>after the war)))
lol
so he is basically asking for money that he may never pay back, because he knows they can't win, but the west wont allow them to surrender, so he can just never return it and also stay president the whole time because he can't allow elections during the war time, because not enough money))))
>It's kinda useless.
They'll do it anyway.
>Z called for new elections next march
He kinda has to. Too many voices claiming the suspension of elections "until the war is won" is tyranny (it's not like UK held any during WWII... but okay). No results on the battlefield and nothing is expected coming during winter so at least he has to look democratic so people would support the continuing support.
>there's a radical new paradigm of thinking
Not impossible. But behind everything just the "destruction of the enemy's military capabilities with whatever means until he can't continue the war" principle is in play. How Clausewitz wrote it 200 years ago (and how Putin claimed too that they demilitarized Ukraine after they emptied the northern part of the country).
Yes. That's the trick. To outcompete the enemy not just on the front, but on the production, economical level.
I think Best Korea just gave 1 mil artillery rounds to Russia.
Cope cages are quite useful against certain type of attacks, Israel uses em liberally on their fancy Merkavas too.
It's kinda weird.
The offensive went nowhere, but in the background to the offensive, there were other seemingly unrelated shifts in the situation which do look like a clear Ukrainian strategic victory. It's just off the publicly stated tactical goals.
Stuff like; getting the grain deal cancelled and instead asserting the shipping lane without a deal.
Making Sevastopol consistently too unsafe to be an option for Black Sea Fleet main port, moving ships to Novorossiysk and even triggering ideas to build a new naval base in Abkhazia.
Turning Kerch Bridge bombings into a regular event.
Victories like this.
They don't help on the battlefield, sure; but they add extra war exhaustion on Russia.
Sure, but the failed counter-offensive itself put a lot of exhaustion on the Ukrainian side as well. It really seems much closer to stalemate than to victory right now.
Both sides mostly use the same Soviet tactics and strategies which were always crap at offense and swift operations but much better at holding ground.
You could just dismiss that we destroyed more than a half of Ukrainian grain terminals used for processing the grain in ports, lol
Sevastopol is temporarily not optimal, untill we build more reliable anti-air layering and anti-drone build up. Ukrainians attack always succeed on the element of surprise and you hear of the success, but when the second or third and fourth Ukrainian attacks fail and get intercepted(because no surprise anymore), the Western media doesn't write about it, because they never write abour our succeesss, instead just masturbating on our loses here and there for weeks and months.
>Turning Kerch Bridge bombings into a regular event.
and just taking it offline for a week. I was saying, its a pipedream to think they can "destroy it" because to destroy it, they need to destroy it completelly, and we can fix and rebuild it same way as we build it in the first place.
>>Z called for new elections next march
>He kinda has to.
Plus. They pressed the "talks about joining" button in the EU in case of Moldova and Ukraine. So Zelensky has to show some level of democracy.
Plus in second half of 2024 Hungary will chair the EU, I'm pretty sure it will be told how anti-democratic Ukraine is if no elections will be held.
In the international news which are in English, he is saying that he will hold election, but in Ukrainian news he is saying "there will be no election, i will remain president after my term expires beacuse no elections can be held in millitary time".
Its always double face like that - saying sweet tune to foreigners in English, and saying another thing to his people in Ukrainian, knowing that foreigners won't be able to understand it.
Also, even if he holds election, he can suspend some regions from holding elections because the level of threat could be deemed "too high" by his security agency. So imagine some region is polling to show anti-Zelensky sentiment, for example Lviv, then the army can allow some rocket to fall on Lviv and then say "Wow, its too dangerous to conduct elections here, no elections for Lviv, but lets run elections in these other regions where Zelensky's polling numbers are high"
>I don't know what he says to Ukrainians.
Use google translate
https://www.unian.ua/politics/zelenskiy-vibori-zaraz-ne-na-chasi-ne-treba-vkidiv-na-cyu-temu-12448236.html
https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/news-cvk-prezydent-verhovna-rada-vybory/32674841.html
https://www.telegraf.in.ua/kremenchug/10123214-prezidentskih-viboriv-u-berezni-ne-bude-volodimir-zelenskij-zajaviv-scho-ce-ne-na-chasi.html
https://www.ukrinform.ua/rubric-polytics/3783536-zelenskij-vibori-zaraz-ne-na-casi.html
You seriously keeping the act up now that we are knee deep in preggo ukrosoldier strategy?
Geee, I used to think there was undercover ukrofash in rus, but now it just seems like nato pandering for more forcefull ukrofash drafts to sacrifice for nothing but hate of slavs.
Sickening. Easily the worst kind of person I've seen online ever, and I've been neck deep in IBs for 2 decades.
Well since Bernds here don't know good places for information, they should start at the Austrian Bundesheer:
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=EWjMr3RZ8Ss
Colonel Reisner does these videos about every half year. Pro-Ukrainian, but very frank about the facts which would make him 100% Russian propagandist in the eyes of NAFO bots..
>1st
Build a fire under the vehicle and have a comfy mudbath in it.
>2nd
>not riding into battle with a brigade of mice comrades who could infiltrate enemy lines
HistoryLegends released a video about that couple days ago.
https://odysee.com/@HistoryLegends:6/ukrainian-marines-decimated-in-river:9
Now that we are at Reisner. Here's a presentation of his:
https://invidious.protokolla.fi/watch?v=P_e_I-TgtvQ
He says Ukrain wants to equip 5 new divisions for another campaign in 2024. They need at least 150 tanks, 300 IFVs, and 2-300 artillery pieces.
If that 12 they set up for the summer campaign did not make much of a difference, how they expect 5 to have any impact? Where would the equipment come from? 150 new tanks???
(They made the first battalion of 31 Abrams recently.)
>12
They are practically non-existent at this point. Have to refill with troops and reequip. If it's possible, the mighty 47 is fighting at Avdiivka now, guaranteeing that any reinforcement they get will be spent.
But as for the equipment, at least in tanks, there is some good news. Beside the Abrams they still have some Leo2s and Challangers left. Perhaps enough for another battalion. And there are the Lynxes Rheinmetall produces (with the new factory on the Hungary too...) them fresh.
The Russo-Ukrainian war is a war of atrittion, mostly fought by trench warfare. Both sides will use the winter to regain strength and mobilise new troops before starting a new offensive. I don‘t think Ukraine will be able to make it to Crimea, when the rest of the world focuses on the Israeli-Gaza Conflict. Only if the western support and supplies keep on going Ukraine will make it. Otherwise Ukraine will have to give up some territories and cede them to russia.
Maybe next year or 2025 either diplomatic discussions or the liberation of crimea will take place.
Slava Ukraini! 🇩🇪🤝🇺🇦
(Also we should mention all the russian people, who dont support Putin 🇩🇪🤝🇷🇺)
Either way, hope this war comes to an end!
Trump can't do anything different, than what Biden already tried. (in the end many of the political decision come from the same sources - Rand and CSIS and Atlantic think tanks)
He also bragged about how he would win in Afghanistan, yet Taliban only grew under Trump.
Since Trump lacks any actual talented advisors and distrusts think tanks that are filled with anti-Trump elements, - it is entirely possible that Trump will surround himself with actual SHIZOS and religious PSYCHOS (like falun gong, moonies, christian eschatology extremists ), who will give him wrong and retarded advices, he will act on them, and that will be easy to exploit by Russia and China.
aren't you the pro-israel argenbernd? I mean, milei it's the kind of goy that will suit perfect with your ideology
Also, nuking a central bank isn't that easy, and the congress opposition just makes it harder
Actually only the yank military bases of all life have sanctioned russia , a decade ago the countries that are colored pink (only condemned russia) would've been red colored instead (sanctioned russia), so who knows if tensions scale between UK and Russia, a simultaneous invasion of the esequibo and falklands would make the little influence they still keep sink
Adveevka battle situation:
>40% of Adveevka is under Russian control.
>Russia has captured the Adveevka railroad line, causing the supply line to the southern neighborhoods under Ukrainian control to be cut off.
>Ukraine is forced to present 2 options: Resist further reinforcements and suffer an encirclement and be surrounded by Russian troops in all directions, or withdraw from Adveevka to regroup on Pokrovsk, in a new defensive line.
Avdiivka has fallen.
DeepState marks it gone full. I'm pretty sure the actual situation is more complicated. Russians will be careful to crawl through the buildings. Furthermore supposedly Sir Sky gave command for a withdrawal. I highly doubt they could leave this short amount of time in that mud and constant fire. I'm fairly sure many trapped in there and they are accounted as POWs or other losses.
Today Putin replaced the command of Ministry of defence. General stuff is still Gerasimov, but possibly not for long. Other changes from my potential list future actions are still...possible
i envisioned this list as in response to success of Ukraine counter-off, but it is true for many other future scenarios of escalation
Yeah, its a good deal for NK. Because we signed some defence agreement and if they sending their troops, that may mean that Russia will support them in war with South Korea?
Can you imagine the possible war on the Korean peninsula where North Koreans, Russians and Chinese again together fight the war against Americans, South Koreans and Japanese? It could be the big one.
You are stupid. This propaganda hurts Russia more than Ukraine cause Ukrainians do not watch it, yet you show this crap to all the Russians and all you managed to do - crate the feel that if mobilizations starts it's over for the country. Meanwhile our military can't win like this - we have no men, from the beginning to this day Ukraine has significant numerical superiority and that is main reason why war is lost.
a lot of Ukrainians use Telegram, and they see these videos. Its not propaganda too, its just regular Ukrainians who have access to smartphones with cameras and they turn them on when they see stuff like that. They don't consider it normal.
If you also look at the watermarks imposed on top of those videos, what do you see on them?
>Хуевая одесса, шарий, одесса инфо, новости одесса, ухилянт инфо, ukr_g_m, хмельницкий live, харьков лайф
those are all watermarks of Ukrainian telegram channels.
>ukrainian soldiers turn on starlink connection
>they're automatically shelled by russian artillery
>mfw Elon Musk is handling over their coordinades to the russian army
Kek, Nafo Troons are about to throw themselves off a bridge at this point. Everything i said last year about how this shit was going to end is happening. That motherfucker of Zelensky is fucked, i hope his own army off him once and for all
Pokrovsk goner, Myrnohrad still has surviving pockets of Ukrainians but the town is not under Ukrainian control anymore in any sense. Hulyaipole is a goner, Siversk is a goner.
Kupyansk West was almost Russian but then AFU counterattack and they still fighting it out. Kupyanks East not sure, probably still Ukrainian despite bold Russian claims.
That Zap front really got into motion. Long way from Vuhledar now.
Here's progrecc.
Syrian war took longer. Or perhaps it never finished.
There is an interesting individual take on this by Jeff Rich of The Burning Archive. Several videos, but worth a listen. He explains why they can't make peace.
Three main ideas which form a trap they can't get out:
1. Five State War (not 2 but 5 participants)
2. Divided Executives (cliques and individual thoughts within all the participants)
3. War Termination Phase (everyone wants to reach peace on their own terms)
I think it starts with this:
Why the Ukraine Peace Plans are DEADLOCKED
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=gP320ajCr-k
YouTube: gP320ajCr-k [Embed]
Why do Ukraine Peace Talks Keep STALLING?
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=jwbfKUe195Q
YouTube: jwbfKUe195Q [Embed]
Then he breaks down each participants:
US - Why the USA cannot make peace or win the war in Ukraine
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=lsMtzadJFYs
YouTube: lsMtzadJFYs [Embed]
Russia - Why Russia won't win on the battlefield only in Ukraine
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=1WJpqilmYWY
YouTube: 1WJpqilmYWY [Embed]
UK - Anarchy in the UK. Britain's Ukraine Endgame
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=gbi_be9HOx8
YouTube: gbi_be9HOx8 [Embed]
Europe - Stop the BLAME EUROPE Game to Make Peace in Ukraine
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=y_19DElXpF4
YouTube: y_19DElXpF4 [Embed]
Ukraine - Ukraine is TRAPPED in the ENDGAME of its Own War
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=lsy3FhsI7PM
YouTube: lsy3FhsI7PM [Embed]
Of the 2023 summer counteroffensive? Not going well.
Recently AFU launched counterattacks on the Zap and Dnipro fronts. Apparently it's going well.
Except DeepState map can't show anything because the areas they took back they never showed as lost to the Russians. So in one reality everyone is very happy for the success, and in the other reality it never happened.
