would you kill people for money? (assuming you'd live long enough to collect your salary)

That question has too many variables to respond.

I mean even if you work as a merc you don't necessarily have to kill anyone to get your salary. And if you go into a firefight with enemy soldiers where one of you gets killed that is just how war goes. You both signed up for this.

 

Killing civilians would be another thing. Although it is probably less risky to just slaughter civilians. But if someone pays you money to do this you probably don't want to work for him.

If you'd be offered 1 million to kill Putin. Would you do it? You don't have to catch him. They hand you the gun and you just have to point it at him and press the trigger.

death is a mercy he doesn't deserve

But you can't decide his fate. You can only decide if you want to get 1 million for pulling the trigger of a gun. If you don't the captor of Putler will decide what he wants to do with him He'll probably find someone else to kill him. So what will it be?

it's still a "no" from me; would you do it?

There are plenty of countries. How about Indonesia instead?

Yes.

But I have a hard time coming up with an argument for it that does not make me sound like an asshole.

Death is a very essential part of life. Life is an eternal struggle for resources that will mean the survival of the one that gets it and the death or inexistence of the one without them. If you eat a very good steak you indirectly killed a cow just so you can get some enjoyment out of it while it would have been sufficient for you to eat a plant. Where is the difference in killing an old man that probably deserves it so you can live probably the rest of your life in comfort?

what events?

haven't you heard about recent events in Russia too?

yes, but that cow would still be dead even if you decided not to buy that steak; I guess the difference is you're the one who directly pulled the trigger; btw I don't think you sound like an asshole

Would you stop eating meat if you would have to kill the animals that you eat yourself?

Do you speak Russian? There is no IT companies in Russia where English is the main language, you know.

I can't even kill mosquitoes, so yeah, I'd stop; would you?

that sounds cumbersome.

Assuming you came home from a hike and found a tick buried into your leg.

Would you

1. remove and kill it

2. remove it and bring it outside,

3. wait until it finished drinking your blood, and then bring it outside?

 

I wouldn't stop. I think it would be a worthy experience to see what has to be done in order to eat meat.

He raped a woman

if you think that sounds cumbersome then I'm curious what you'd say about me trying to catch a mosquito to let it out the window; as for the tick question - that would never happen because I'm way too squeamish to go on a hike without an insect repellent, but I'll humor you - I'd pick the second option, since I wouldn't want to kill it but I also don't want to be fed on

 

I think it's pretty well documented already, but what's stopping you?

I'd probably say that it looks cumbersome.

 

I could probably find some farm where they let me kill a living chicken and let me then take it back home. And while I think that would be something that a meat eater should experience I'm not terribly excited to go through the effort to find such a place and do this. It's probably interesting but unpleasant.

I used to watch my grandma kill chickens when I was a kid, she would tie their feet and chop their heads with an axe, then she'd put the body away until it'd stop twitching (I kind of remember headless chicken bodies trying to run away but I'm not sure if that was real or just my imagination), after that she would pluck the feathers and use fire to burn off any that remained; I've never seen her gut them though; so yeah, you are right, it's a lot of work

I am willing to learn. According to the Yandex leaks they still write their code in English language, so it should be fine I guess

 

I don't leave my apartment

Why should it be imagination? It is a very common trope for chicken to run around after their head was chopped off.

My mom told me that when she was young they would chop off the heads of two chicken and see which one got farther.

oh my dog, that's... peculiar; any other interesting games your mom told you about?

We sometimes played chess against each other. But she didn't stand a chance against me.

 

Do homegrown chicken taste better than the ones you get at the supermarket?

does that mean you're really good or is your mom really bad? and was it regular chess or did it include beheaded animals?

 

I haven't eaten a homegrown chicken in a very long time, so I don't really remember, but I would say anything beats meat from a supermarket; there's a small butcher shop nearby and meat bought there is always better (taste-wise and quality-wise; and it doesn't release a fuckton of water during cooking like the supermarket one); anyways, if we're talking poultry I think turkey is a tastier option

Please don't look too hard into my statements when I'm trying to impress you I think she was just bad.. You could argue that the knight in chess is just a detached head of a horse. At least it typically looks like that. Does that make it more interesting to you?

 

I have heard somewhere that the living conditions of turkeys are even worse than chickens and that they are pumped full with antibiotics. So I typically rather buy chicken than turkey.

to be honest I don't know how to feel about chess, because on one hand it's just a bunch of algorithms (I guess same could be said for any game without non-deterministic elements), but on the other hand you actually have to learn and know when to use them (or you could just wing it, but you probably wouldn't beat someone who uses the algorithms this way); oh, and I'm also pretty bad at it, so I don't stand a chance against you either; besides, you've already impressed me with something else so don't worry your precious head about it

 

why not give up all meat then? I'm pretty sure the reality of meat industry is gruesome regardless of species; when I was taking a bath yesterday I was actually thinking how you're making me reconsider being an omnivore

I want to be your friend.

what's stopping you?

I don't know. We don't know each other in real life.

haven't you ever been friends with someone you've never met?

this kind of pisses me off about being an adult in the internet age. Back in the days you used to just play chess while knowing only the rules and nothing else against each other and then just had fun at it. Nowadays whenever you begin something new you first have to watch tutorials on youtube and read up and learn all the basics before you can even begin to have fun.

I recently tried to start to play some online shooter valorant. But before you can play it properly you first have to learn all kinds of techniques like counterstrafing, learn the behavior of weapon spread and all the abilities and names of all the characters. I eventually got sick of it and stopped.

Of course you could just disregard that and just play. But then it would be frustrating because you would lose all the time because everyone else knows this stuff since it is so easily available and makes you so much better.

 

Same reason why I would shoot Putin >>251143

Even if you would stop eating meat you would still be responsible for hundreds of insects dying under the soles of your shoes that you don't even notice. When a tractor plows the field that grows the plants that you eat it will kill the majority of the rodents that live there. When a harvester mows down a field it will cut apart most snakes and frogs that live there. You can easily notice the dead animals when you actively look for them in freshly cut grass. Pesticides on plants are designed to kill.

At the end there is no black and white. There is no white because living without being responsible for dead animals would mean not living at all. Then something else can consume the remains of your body and thrive on it. Of course this shouldn't mean that you should not live without any morals at all. It is about finding a shade of grey where you can still live comfortably while minimizing the amount of pain that you inflict on other beings on this world. I try to eat organic meat because I can afford it. I try to not eat veal of lamb because I dislike eating animal children. I think I still do pretty well on the moral scale in contrast to a lot of vegans because I flew only once in a plane in my life. And even this was within germany. So just by that my total carbon emission output is really low for a wecterner. But this was never because of morals but because my family never took me on vacations so I never got into that fly to another country on holidays thing.

did you rape a woman? op, you should talk to a lawyer first.

Yesterday I thought if it would be morally better to eat a cow than a chicken. For the amount of food that you get when you kill a single cow you have to kill dozens of chicken. On the other hand from what I've heard chicken are really stupid and cows are rather intelligent. So what is better in terms of total suffering produced?

 

I read a while ago that fish don't experience pain like we do. If you inflict wounds on fish they or maybe only some species don't even notice it. That's why some vegetarians still eat fish. I don't know. You can think a lot about this stuff without coming to any satisfying conclusion.

well, you could always find someone who feels the same about tutorials and play together; I don't think many people learn chess algorithms though, it's way too much material to cover for someone who wants to play casually; but I guess people just want to be good at things without putting the work in; last year I played Dragon Age and at the beginning I made a mistake of looking at a class build tutorial - it basically reduced combat to mashing the same combination of keys over and over again and made the game dreadfully boring, so I just started a new playthrough, picked a different class and figured it out on my own which was fun in and of itself

 

I've always been an "all or nothing" kind of person and I feel like a hypocrite if I don't 100% commit to something, so I really envy you the ability to live comfortably amongst shades of grey

 

why do you dislike eating baby animals? one could argue that it's worse to eat fully grown animals because they lived longer, experienced more and their brains are fully developed so they're more self-conscious, hence dying is a worse experience for them (okay, maybe no one beside me would say that, because my brain often comes up with weird arguments)

 

since you've mentioned carbon footprint - don't you feel like corporations (who are responsible for most of world's greenhouse gas emissions) have changed tactics and been trying to shift the responsibility on to regular people?

 

what do you think? how would you measure and compare suffering?

Does that mean that you are going to stop eating meat? I would feel pretty down tbh if I would be the cause that you couldn't enjoy good food anymore.

don't know yet, but I am considering it; please don't feel bad, you gave me something to think about and it's a good thing

No, I did not. Do you want to marry me?

Most insects are nothing more than biological machines. Their central nervous system is not elaborate enough to be more. So I think killing hundreds of insects is less bad than killing a conscious mammal. I think it would be probably morally best to exclusively eat fish for meat because they are closest to biological machines than most other typical sources of meat. Also fish provides everything you would want from meat. But I don't like fish. So I move to a darker shade of grey and don't eat it that often.

 

I think it is less bad to eat chicken than to eat cows. This is convenient because raising chicken is also less carbon and water intensive than cows. I don't know how to compare cow to pig. Both are intelligent. But beef is better nutrition wise and tastes better. So I almost never buy pig and typically eat beef. But I eat it way less often than chicken. Of course this is all highly subjective.

 

What could be moral consumption of meat? Moral consumption of meat would be if you grow an animal. Let it live its life to its fullest and then slaughter it after it's peak of its existence (whatever age that is). Be aware that you could also slaughter an animal without the animal feeling any pain. In this context you didn't cause any suffering. You just kept the animal from enjoying more time of its life. So this is another variable to consider. The earlier you kill an animal the less time it has to experience life.

At the end you should try to act in a way that promotes a moral consumption of meat. That means that you try to buy organic meat to show to the industry that you are willing to pay more if they treat their animals better. And buy meat of adult animals so they have the chance to live a life.

No, friendship is a serious undertaking. And I was never so close to someone online, I would have called it a friendship.

Yeah, you might, but to be suitable for a high paying IT job you got to be a mid at least.

Lots of juns that are not needed at the market.

is it moral to give life to a being if you intend to kill it later? how do you decide when animal's existence has peaked? and, more importantly, why do you get to decide that? I struggle to see value in life (not just when it comes to animals, in general); if a being were not born at all then it would never suffer, wouldn't that be better?

 

how close do you need to be to someone to call it a friendship?

Online: intimate trust like being able to tell each other the utmost secrets, maybe talking each day, then becoming less. But I'm unsure if it's possible to really become friends online, that's why I said "We don't know each other in real life." Online you can stop any contact from one second to another, in real life that's harder, the relationship is more stable.

do people really tell each other secrets? last time I did that I was seven

 

I don't think relationships are more stable when it's harder to ghost another person; if someone wants to cut contact then it won't make much difference (and do you really want to maintain friendship with a person who wants to shake you off?)

 

I had an online friend for six years and it was great but then ended badly, so you're probably right to be wary

I don’t mean secrets in a literal sense. I mean your most private thoughts you don’t generally share with the whole world.

Exactly, that’s what I meant. And that’s the big weakness of online friendships.

would a real friend ghost you?

Peak of a human organism is probably 25-30. Afterwards your health starts to slowly deteriorate against. I bet there is something similar for most animals. I guess it would be really nice if we would only eat animals that have died of old age, but this is just not practical.

 

With the same right that you use when you grow and cut crops. You have to consume other lives in order to survive. That's how life works. When you create life, make the life as enjoyable as possible, and then consume it, I think that is moral.

 

Beings are genetically programmed to not want to die. Otherwise they wouldn't exist for long. How can one argue that it is better to not exists while still obviously enjoying life enough that you don't immediately kys? You can't.

It sounds a little weird when you say that life has no value but can't even kill a tick.

Hahaha. swissy is back, baby :)

Probably not immediately, but I had friendships in real life where we got distant over a certain period of time and then at the end one of us ghosted the other.

HALT DIE FRESE!!!

Rude

as far as I know plants aren't aware, so while technically they are alive and able to die it's not the same as with animals

 

nature doesn't concern itself with ethics; at least that's the way I see it

 

you don't have to enjoy life not to kill yourself; you could be afraid to die, have survival instincts like most beings or the reason could be as simple as not wanting to make your mom sad; also, my inability to kill a tick has little to do with the so-called value of life, it's more about tick's consent to be killed (which sounds fucking bananas, so maybe let's pretend we're talking about killing a human, because same rule applies anyway)

 

as if swissroll would be able to write a single sentence without insulting anyone; that's clearly not him

You seem to apply the golden rule to everything that is conscious. I think it would be more practical to change it to apply it to only things that are self-aware. Maybe everything that can recognize itself in a mirror. A tik or a fly can't value its life because it has no understanding of it.

 

The alternative for a cow to be raised for consumption is not existing at all. Humans wouldn't breed cows if they couldn't consume them. Wouldn't a cow prefer to live a couple of somewhat happy years than not exist at all? I think the former. Of course a cow still wouldn't consent to be killed. But maybe a human can put his enjoyment for meat over a quick and painless death of a cow that for his whole life won't know how short it will be. And as you said life has no value anyway.

 

Milk cows are often made into ground beef when they don't produce enough milk anymore. You might want to look into that. Then you are at least not responsible for its death because it would be killed anyway.

that would be more practical, but I'm not sure it's possible to determine self-awareness with 100% certainty; failing the mirror test can't be interpreted as lack of self-awareness

 

aren't milk cows constantly impregnated and have their calves taken away? I think that would rank pretty high on the suffering scale

Hmm you are probably right with the milk cows.

What would be a better test to determine self-awareness?

that's the thing, there is no test that would give you a definite answer, that's why the whole thing is one big grey area

 

I suppose you could do brain scans or measure brain activity, but I'm not a neurologist so I don't know if it would yield any meaningful results

Yeah, which happens "only" about 4-5 times in their lifetime, because then they're too old and hit the wall.

Definitely yes. If you go straight to it, it still depends on your skill. And keep in mind that if the work is not remote, then in Moscow or St. Petersburg salaries will be higher. There is more in Moscow than in St. Petersburg, but you will spend more on rent and possibly live in EBENYAX (bad place). In St. Petersburg, the salary is slightly less, but life is calmer, food prices are lower so in general sometimes lower than in the regions. for jun, you can find a salary of about 1000-1500 dollars. With local food prices, accommodation is more than enough for one person. Oh yes you can make teeth lol. 4 fillings and one pulled tooth in a good private clinic cost me 300 bucks

Anyway WELL CUM.

 

.

Lolwut?

i've seen an inherited apartment like that:

 

old books everywhere

 

 

1940's floor

 

empty winebottles in the kitchen

 

broken doorlatches

 

a 1990's tape player

 

no light in the corridor

It's Moscow so if you just sell that appartment you can still buy few villages next to Voronezh, with people and cattle. Fixing lights, changing doors and floors costs literally nothing comparing to the price of land there (while winebottles and tape player are kinda retro, you can make this stylish and sell it even better).

well, it was not mine

 

 

Full story: walked in an apartment to see and test a tape player from 1998. It turned out to be a 3-bedroom+kitchen apartment from 1950's for special people (not a khrushyovka, a spacy 9-storey experimental building with 2 apts/floor)

 

 

So, the girl was selling all the inherited crap: the tape player (still in a box!), some old technical books, useless stuff was just laying on the floor...

 

bonus

 

the staircase was

just like in the vidrelated

YouTube: KvCZPg2aVec%3A%2F%2Fdzen.ru%2F&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE&feature=emb_title

apparently, the owner indeed wanted to fix it