battered wife tier justification
fun fact: anarchogommunist party representative argued yesterday that it's irresponsible to buy armoured vehicles and that his party still wants referendum to block it despite russia threat because by buying weapons we're making russia mad and that if we demilitarised there would be no war simple as
Idk d00dz. It seems like its better for all involved to give him a pretense to put a big "Mission accomplished" banner on the Admiral Kuznetsov and fug off back home.
The Ukranians probably would not mind being a Switzerland instead of a Serbia. You know, stop having their everything leveled twice a century.
yes
conceding to bully just so you don't get beaten only postpones when it's your turn to get beaten
also
>back
last time I checked ukraine (as well as belarus and kazahstan) were supposed to be neutral & their territorial integrity guarded by both russia and europe
now russia is infringing on both, first by violating ukraine's territorial integrity (2014 already) and then by acting like ukraine should be their puppet
With how things are playing out right now there are two scenarios:
-Russia gets a Pyrrhic victory losing most of its army and creates another absolutely disillusioned Afghanistan Generation, the Ukrainians get brutal repression and a bloody insurgency for a decade or two. NATO militarizes heavily but realistically Russia has no hope of attacking anyone for twenty years. Sanctions forever which essentially makes Russia China's bitch.
-West wins by slowly pushing them back to the border. Ukrainians suffers destruction and death. Billions and billions and billions are poured into rebuilding from the ruins, trillions if they decide to make a nuclear power plant a strong point. I mean, are the Ukrainians willing to shell Chernobyl to push out the butthurt roosters? NATO militarizes heavily but realistically Russia has no hope of attacking anyone for twenty years. Sanctions not quite forever but essentially Russia becomes China's bitch.
Option three is to give the Russians an out, NATO membership is off the table for the Ukraine BUT they can be EU. Sanctions are eased step by step. Russia already lost most of their army but if they try again it is a different game to attack a EU member and they get perma fucked. The Ukraine gets to suffer a little less and prosper.
>conceding to bully just so you don't get beaten only postpones when it's your turn to get beaten
are you talking about your school days or what?
>were supposed to be neutral & their territorial integrity guarded by both russia and europe
now russia is infringing on both
usa orchestrated coup de etat so ukraine lost neutrality and russia reacted, pretty much he made the same point
What is certain is that Ukraine gonna get rekt back to stone age.
Russia has no other choice but to spit out wectern dick and start sucking chinese one.
And China itself with Russian resources eventually gonna become new hegemon.
oki dude, precisely bombing apartment blocks with cluster bombs.
This is worse then deploying all of your army, they deployed most of the trained troops in rust bucket vehicles with rations for a quick operation. Sending in all that trash consumes resources that are now not available to operate you new stuff, also you just gave the Ukrainians a thousand 52 ton roadblocks.
And now if you trickle in the rest of you provincial units who have ZERO combat experience against a hardened defense force you just lose that as well.
So they play the only card they have really, which is level Ukrainian cities with artillery.
>My point is that they are fugged whatever they do and the longer it goes on for the fuggder they become.
Fully agree they're fucked.
>Kremlin lies about caring for the Ukrainians on a chan won't change that.
I dont think they care a lot about Ukrainians.
I think neither do you or me, because this is ongoing since 2014, yet nobody gave a shit about dying civillians even a month ago.
They dont just blindly level cities because it would spark full scale resistence thru out the whole Ukraine.
And it seems that it is exactly what Ukrainian regime wants judging by the fact they deploy artillery and MRLs inside cities, while at the same time forcing civillians to stay there as Russian briefing just recently announced.
YouTube: CDaQL2PQr6M?t=62
>usa orchestrated coup de etat
lol, lmao
you are aware that the burger glowniggers operating on the ukraine at the time even supported yanukovych, right?
ukrainian revolution was EU backed, not NATO/US
which brings me to
>NATO membership is off the table for the Ukraine BUT they can be EU.
You need to stop this "NATO this, NATO that, NATO literally hitler" bullshit because no matter how much russian propaganda wishes to claim NATO was involved here, its dont
Reading comprehension check failed
Read this next
>14 Jun. 2021
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_185000.htm?selectedLocale=en
>69. We reiterate the decision made at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine will become a member of the Alliance with the Membership Action Plan (MAP) as an integral part of the process; we reaffirm all elements of that decision, as well as subsequent decisions, including that each partner will be judged on its own merits.
Russia doesn't want NATO in Georgia so they invade before it can happen.
Russia doesn't want NATO in Ukraine so they invade before it can happen.
Pattern?
>14 Jun. 2021
Which, let me remind you, happened long after 2014, when Russia already violated Ukrainian territorial integrity, agreed upon at the Budapest Memorandum.
Btw, Belarus was supposed to be neutral too based on the same treaty. What happened to that?
>Russia doesn't want NATO in Georgia so they invade before it can happen.
Oh right, Georgia.
If wect was so happy about spreading on "rightful russian clay" as you seem to behave like it is, Georgia and Moldova would have applied for EU membership much earlier too, not only just now that it's fair game thanks to Russian complete abandonment of all deals and treaties.
>69. We reiterate the decision made at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine will become a member of the Alliance with the Membership Action Plan (MAP) as an integral part of the process; we reaffirm all elements of that decision, as well as subsequent decisions, including that each partner will be judged on its own merits.
>The alliance decided not to offer Ukraine and Georgia a membership action plan - a gateway to membership - but agreed on Thursday to review this in December.
I repeat again: NATO received the applications but froze that indefinitely, due to geopolitical interests and Russia.
Not that this matters. Russia will claim that it's all a NATO plot even if NATO itself was the one that rejected membership. Because nobody would apply out of free will, they have to be forced by NATO to do so, right?
Exactly. Georgia was not yet a member so any legal or political basis for assisting did not exist. Spooked NATO off the Ukraine as well for a while as what is the point of a defensive alliance if it just shatters when one of your members gets attacked.
You can not Join NATO with disputed territory, until 2014 Ukraine was in Russias sphere so no worries about NATO expansion. After Maidan not so much.
So they create some disputed territory to buy time, and helped a useful idiot they can influence to become president in the US. But Uh oh, the moron lost the re election and couldn't even do a tiny coup on January 6th 2021.
So they start moving stuff to the border, literally in February 2021. Russia does not want the Ukraine to join NATO pure and simple.
So, what you're saying is that Russia invaded Georgia for even daring suggest to NATO that they want to be members. (Which may I remind you completely fits the timeline. Russia started with recognition of Abkhazia and S. Ossetia in April, right after that summit).
But if you think NATO backed off and didn't consider their membership because of Russian invasion, you're not only a fool, you're also overestimating Russia. NATO simply doesn't give a fuck because they had nothing to gain in Ukraine or Georgia.
>Russia does not want the Ukraine to join NATO pure and simple.
You need to stop fixating on NATO because NATO never wanted Ukraine to join either.
So, I hope you're aware that Russia here didn't declare war on NATO – the only one who's pissed off here is EU itself.
Actually this is exactly what they should do, maybe they would even love to do this but they dont have a choice.
Otherwise dont be surprised when they get shelled back.
>EU backed
EU dont have its own political will, it is fully submited to USA.
>russian propaganda wishes to claim NATO was involved here, its dont
Its not about NATO being involved its about NATO expansion being a direct threat to Russia.
It's only a threat Russian expansionisn
You must be a fairly clever person, Ryssäball, so how can you buy into Putin's fake news propaganda worldview? How is this possible? You have to understand that this all happens only so that Putin would be remembered as a great conqueror in history books, right?
nah. Putin is reasonable
if we allow Ukraine into NATO, then we will give NATO 40mln people who can be turned into anti-Russian soldiers, the industry, breadbusket, door into the heart of Russia, place to place missiles - huge resource to our enemies
and our enemies would still have sanctions in the future
better to fuck Ukraine now, before later when they join NATO and threaten us
Putin called Ukraine - potential anti-Russia. like anti-Christ, but anti-Russia. We must prevent anti-Russia from growing stronger, we must kill anti-Russia in its craddle. Fuck Ukraine, its not even a real country, why people pretend its real, why people can't pretend that DNR and LNR are real countries, but pretend that Ukraine is real country, it won't be a real country soon, pray Putin to solve Ukraine problem the most radical way
> if we allow Ukraine into NATO
It wouldn't happen. NATO would prefer a buffer zone as much as Russia did.
> who can be turned into anti-Russian soldiers
Your damn invasion turned them into anti-Russian soldiers, even civilians.
> its not even a real country
It's amusing to hear that from people who call the invasion "denazification" and call their opponents "neo-nazi"
>It wouldn't happen.
If this wouldn't happen then it would be pretty easy to write it down as part of the agreement. That was the whole point of Putin's demand for negotiations in January, when he asked for security guarantees. Just saying It wouldn't happen is not enough. In 20 years it can happen and what are we going to do it Russia? Cry that ""20 years ago you said it wouldn't happen!!"" We passed the point of this shit, because some fag said to us 20 years ago that NATO wouldn't expand to the East of Germany and yet they did.
So we needed strict and solid guarantees - Putin said like 100 times - and all he got was words and no one signed on paper those guarantees.
>Your damn invasion turned them into anti-Russian soldiers, even civilians.
This would have happened anyway, its not like in 20 years of anti-Russian propaganda they would survive, Ukraine passed laws banning Russian language, in 20 years such policies would already change the political landscape of Ukraine turning it into anti-Russia. And Ukraine was always anti-Russia one way or another, its like they shit on us and bite us and when we hit back, they cry - "no we will never be with you!" and to that i can say "You shouldn't have shit on us and bite us in the first place, faggots"
>It's amusing to hear that from people who call the invasion "denazification" and call their opponents "neo-nazi"
Explain this shit picrelated and article
https://tass.com/world/837935
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/u-s-opposes-nazi-speech-but-will-vote-no-at-un-to-banning-it
https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/us-lifts-ban-on-funding-neo-nazi-ukrainian-militia-441884
In the West there are almost no open nazis and liberals have to dig real deep to declare someone a nazi, to the point where they developed a term dog whisteling, when a person can be declared a nazi not even because they wear swastika, but because they just make a slightly cringe joke, saying that this joke was a crypto-signaling to other nazis in a big conspiracy. But in Ukraine there are real fucking nazis with swastikas, doing torch marches, zig hailing, praising war criminals of ww2 and the Western world pretends it doesn't see it. So in the West you can be called a NAZI and canceled for inappropriate joke, but for Ukraine the West doesn't see outright nazis and even funds them
Its a false narrative. After the fall of USSR the West had a chance to create good and friendly relations with Russia.
And what did they do? They supported separatists in Chechnya. Fucking islamic jihadi cutthroat terrorists who were bombing metro and taking pregnant women hostages in hospitals were called REBELS by Americans and they placed sanction on us. For trying to keep Russia united, for fighting terrorists like this.
Americans attacked Yugoslavia and bombed Serbians, our brothers.
When USSR collapsed, Americans didn't even lift the sanctions they put on USSR, even though those sanctions had nothing to do with Russia. Is this how they make clean slate with the new country, trying to be friends with us?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson–Vanik_amendment#Russia
At some point Putin even wanted Russia to join NATO, but of course we got refused, because Sauron cannot be accepted into the anti-Mordor coalition
https://tass.com/politics/949712
No, Americans always viewed Russia as a temporary state to be balkanized even more, they never wanted Russia to be whole, they always wanted us to fail and never wanted friendship with Russia.
> And Ukraine was always anti-Russia one way or another
What's all this bullshit about "liberation" and "denazification" then? And what's Russia planning to do with occupied territories filled with anti-Russia people, I wonder, what's reasonable in this?
> Explain this shit
Not gonna to. There're neo-nazi in every country, that's not about people who wear swastikas or do torch marches. The difference is, the nazi in other countries haven't gone that far as occupying "not a real country" neighbours and praising it.
>And what's Russia planning to do with occupied territories filled with anti-Russia people, I wonder, what's reasonable in this?
We will do there fair elections. And these elections will be open because before this even the communist party was banned in Ukraine, a lot of parties were banned in Ukraine because they were a threat to the neo-nazi anti-Russian regime. Maybe this time WE will ban neo-nazi parties and see who will win out of the non-nazi parties. If elections without communists were considered fair, then elections without neo-nazis will also be fair.
>Not gonna to.
Fuck you then. We will kill the nazis. Thats what we gonna do. You can try to cry about neo-nazis in Ukraine, while banning and imprisoning any neo-nazi in the Netherlands.
>it has nothing to do with NATO
It has more to do with NATO than all the cases where you interpret EU's meddling as proof of NATO trying to gobble everything up.
elections are unfree if the party we want to win doesn't win, also all the parties we don't like are clearly nazis because if they weren't nazis we wouldn't not like them t. russia
> fair elections
On occupied territories. Full of people who are against the occupiers. I knew Russians don't know much about fair elections, but this... Do you even know what democracy stands for?
> We will kill the nazis
People, who you declare to be nazi
> Thats what we gonna do
Because that's exactly what nazi would do.
why its commiting economical suicide right now then?
why uk left eu?
why primarly european companies breaking ties with russia while us companies mainly arent involved?
who is going to sell their expensive gas to eu now?
why north stream was attempted to be canceled so many times?
why us is spying on eu politicians(was proven by wikileaks years ago)?
how many more clues do you need?
I will only answer one question here
>why primarly european companies breaking ties with russia while us companies mainly arent involved?
because as I have said every single time this is a Russia vs EU conflict, with US trying not to get involved at all.
This isn't "dumb EU taking damage at behest of US overlords", this is quite literally US not wanting to be involved and EU being left on its own.
Everything else follows from this. US does NOT want a strong EU, so they are doing everything to prevent it from happening.
>buying weapons we're making russia mad and that if we demilitarised there would be no war
This is a standard argument in germany. And a reason why we disarm our defense since 20 years. Till we have nothing to defend our self. The Heeresinspekteur said the true. We are blank. The defense ministry lies or is stupid or suicidal. We only have the NATO Article 4. and 5. And the dependent to Putins Gas mafia shows, that we are economical not so strong like some people thought. We pay every single day for putins operation. Like a junky we have no other choice to pay for our drugs and whores and accept that the dealer and pimp and his mafia isn't the good gay.
They will return or they will be replaced by Russian or Chinese analogues. There are a lot of Russian companies which couldn't raise their head because of the competition from Western brands. Now the field is clear, but demand is still there. The demand will be satisfied by either Russian, or Chinese companies. Thats how market works. Its not like Russia loses from them going out, its them losing out on our market, losing profits from our consumers. The vacuum will be filled by someone else and they will lose money.
Yeah. I recall that back when wectern pharma had to pull out in 2014 this helped Russian homegrown pharma finally to thrive, no longer impeded by established wectern products flooding the market (dumping prices).
Hopefully Russian brands can grow before wectern companies try getting back into Russia once the current regime croaks.
> once the current regime croaks
Suppose mister P dies tomorrow, someone much worse can come. Medvedev or Shoigu. These guys would be even more radical than P.
This system is not something fragile it reproduces itself and has safety mechanisms. Same as in USA really, there is a deep state in Russia formed from security officials and millitary who will have so much power, they influence who is the leader and his decisions.